I would not be surprised if an 8-year-old boy chose to buy his grandmother a video game? Would you chuckle? I would not. Most kids tend to be "egocentric" (not to be confused with selfishness). Egocentrism is the phase where children are unable to separate their beliefs from others. They think that if they would love to have a video game from Christmas, so would grandma!! Gradually kids learn to put themselves in other shoes and learn that everyone's life experiences are different. REALLY?? Then why do I see so many of us adults still egocentric, unable to believe that others are different than us, that what others may want or not want may be different from what you think they should want or not want?
I recently put up a post on how some women are still oppressed, not treated equally to men, and that they maybe need some upliftment. Some of you agreed, some disagreed, some with passion, some with nonchalance, and some of you felt that the woman has many choices to be in or out of a situation. REALLY?
Do you think that a girl child in Africa who is genetically mutilated (as per cultural practice) for the preservation of virginity, enhancement of male sexual satisfaction, and prevention of promiscuity is treated fairly and has a choice of being or not being in that situation?
Do you think that a woman in Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan who has to walk around in a burkha everyday, unable to work, having no access to health care because the doctors are not female, and has to submit to domestic violence, is being treated fairly and has a choice in being who they are?
Do you think that when a girl child in countries such as China, Korea, and India who is abandoned, not favored, or even killed before she is born because of gender favoritism is in a fair position and has a choice in removing herself from being at risk for her own killing?
Do you think that the women who continue to practice Sati in the remote villages of India do so out of immortal love for their husbands? Do you think that the pressure from their relatives to commit this act is fair and that the girls have a choice in going against them?
REALLY?
Think again. You might think that the world is changing, that the women are in a much better position than they were years ago, and that there is gender equality present today. All true to some extent. But there is a lot that needs to change. There are a lot of women out there who are not as fortunate as you, or your mother, sister, friend, are. So before arguing with women who appear feminists about making false accusations against men, stop to answer this question.
Are you that woman in India, China, Africa, Korea, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan....
Just My Thing
15 years ago
74 Words of Wisdom:
Sucks big time. Everything that you penned down here in is so true...it's a biased world..it wasn't meant to be this way..
wow... awesome post :-)
I loved it.... so assertive and makes one think... Good job!
Hmm...I am not the HER that u have mentioned. I agree with you, Most of the girls in the cases u have mentioned don't have much of a choice. They are stuck where they are at.
But we must not forget that plenty of the freedom we have got is b'coz of the rebels. PPl who chose to break away from the norm, not abide by a rule and not be forced into "nonsense" in the name of culture. The process mabbe have started by one woman(or man) and many followed suit.n it must most def. not have been an easy change to bring about.Yes, there is lots left to change in the world. But we cannot deny that over the yrs there has been progress!
n when ur talking abt post on women being oppressed..did u mean the "I am Woman" post?
no, i am not HER. and i really really am lucky. to be born where i was, when i was and to whom i was. it's a completely different world from "her" perspective.
i am not a feminist... but honestly respect those who are. as long as they're genuine. the ones i don't like are the ones who jump onto the feminism bandwagon because they think it's "cool" and go home and teach their daughters to cook while their sons watch tv.
oh you wont believe this, I have this not-really-related relative of mine.. his grandmum was darn sick, brain tumour..last days. he's workin, the grandmum was stayin with another son who wasnt doin oh-so-well..so they needed financial help n all, eone knew bout it. and this guy, got a boz of CHOCOLATES when he visited her!! and had the audacity to say "specially for granma"... wtf!!
some people never grow up, really. :|
@ Elusive, maybe it isn't. And that's why there are people who are trying to make it change and are successful to some extent.
@ Raaji, thank you!
@ Pavi, yes. Plenty changes due to the rebels aka feminists, who have fought for women's rights. And I am not denying there is progress made. But we also have not made that much progress for men to say that it is an "equal" world, as they so much like doing.
a lot need to be done...like you have said...it all starts with better educational facilities!!!
excellent post, but i will come back again to dop in my comments (at work right now :()
All that you've mentioned is sad but fucking true!
Rest, I don't like to speak for matters I haven't done or perhaps can't do anything. :|
Strong sentiments there Solitaire. I am not in favour of those who undermine someone else's situation by saying they are not doing anything about it, but I also don't support those who really don't push the envelope and break out of what they find grossly unacceptable.
To put it in context, a girl like you will be affected more intensely by the thought of cultural genital mutilation, while the women in that culture itself will find it a norm!, or at least not feel it to be so gross and inappropriate. Thats a part of their culture you see. Also, those from among them who do find it unacceptable, then should be ready to rebel against it till they drop dead and thats the only way they can hope to get a better life.
Its not just about women from third world countries, but about every unfortunate individual on the face of this planet. Its his/her own drive to make the world a better place for himself/herself and others, that will make a difference.
And trust me, misfortune is very relative. Even that "HER" will feel someone else to be less fortunate than herself.
Everyone has a choice. If you don't want to live like this, then die trying to improve it. Everyone's got to die someway!
I agree 100%.
**You might think that the world is changing, that the women are in a much better position than they were years ago, and that there is gender equality present today. All true to some extent. But there is a lot that needs to change.
yes..the WOMEN that we see changing r the ones who are already in a safe position. We forget the real ones who suffer in silence. And there r alot of them in this world!
Keshi.
it is a biased world... there's no doubt about it... no matter how many strides we take and no matter what we do to shatter that "glass ceiling", try something as siple as booking a railway ticket at the counter on the platform, and you shall see the discrimination... the fellow looks right through you to the man standing behind you... no matter how liberally i was brought up, its a biased world out there...
No, am certainly not her, I have the freedom to make my own choices, to stand by my own beliefs, to voice my opinions, to be free..
I know that most of the times we are cocooned from the outside world, and not being in the same scenario or never having witnessed anything to anyone we know, we can probably not even phanthom the problems women all over the world are facing..
This post certainly was an eye opener, next time I'll think befor I speak..
Very thought provoking post.though the scene seems to be changing, its only a small percentage who have experienced the change. I had read about the African mutilation story and a top ramp model's fight against it. Women have struggled so hard to get some amount of respect and still there is such a long way to go.
though I am not "her", but it hurts to see women who take abuse without even a whimper, just to keep someone happy .
@ Rayshma, I think there are some people out there who think that fighting with the husband to have him do the dishes is a form of feminism when its not! I know what you are trying to say. I hope that these so-called feminists do more about global issues than limit themselves to personal frivolous battles.
@ Busy Writer, OMG! Are you serious?
@ Humble, I don't know where the start point is and where the end point is. I do know that a unified action is needed to bring about quick change.
@ Anvita, thanks!! Do come back!
@ Sutta, I know. Sometimes it does feel helpless because we are not actively doing anything about a situation. But awareness that a problem exists is a good start.
@ Crimson, I would like to disagree with you. I have personally spoken to women in Iran who live in frustration about the burkha. My classmates have conducted research on women in Afghanistan and have found that all these women live in fear and that 75% of the women population there is significantly depressed. I have spoken to Chinese women who have had their feet bound and live in pain today. To assume that these women think this is a norm is a grave mistake. They want to be freed but do not know how to do that. Fortunately, for some strong-minded women out there, some policy changes are now taking place. But not all women can do so due to their life circumstances and it is wrong to be blame them for not being able to get out of their situation.
@ Keshi, what is sad to me is that people like to BLAME these women who are not in safe positions for continuing to stay in that position. It is like blaming a rape victim for wearing a skimpy skirt and provoking a man to rape them. Ridiculous!
@ Bubbles, thank you for bringing such a common daily life example to notice. People like to believe that these things don't happen but they do.
@ Sam, true. Just because our eyes are closed and we do not see the problems, does not mean that they have disappeared.
@ Deepti, let us not blame these women for not whimpering. Many of these women live in fear. The afghani women are in constant fear that their heads will be chopped off if they even utter one wrong word. They are placed in a helpless situation.
all that is so true!
watch this new pakistani movie...khuda kay liye! i did n i was shocked to see hw muslim women are treated!
frankly speaking i heard all these but never aware of all these problems...
i am from a place called kerala where women given respect more than men......where till some time back child where given their mothers family name....so on
i have evn written a post in my blog...
but yes the problems stated by you exist..
and if they want an upliftment then THEY will have to do it.....
its very well said " ONE WILL NEVER GET RIGHTS BY ASKING, HAVE TO SNATCH IT"
I agree with you solitaire... and i am not blaming them. I have full sympathy and support for them. I am trying to build a perspective here. Only those who are ready to help themselves, will get help from others. And they need to want it bad enough.
If they were so depressed that they don't even want to do anything about it, then is there any point in trying to help them out? It backfires badly Solitaire.
I have been associated with 2 social service organizations and tried to work with street kids. They are not as deprived and unfortunate as we think. In fact, they are at times happier than all of us put together.
That made me wonder how our perception of happiness is merely a relative idea.
I have the choice of either getting depressed about my situation and giving up, which does come very easily. Or, do things that help me get out of it, which is tough.
One needs to be an extremely strong person in order to think the way I am suggesting. Probably, I myself may not be able to think like this had I led a different life.
But then I have had my share of misfortune and I know I did rather well.
Hope this has not come across as being argumentative. Just that "relative happiness", and "strength of character" are subjects I have pondered over many a times.
@ solitaire responding to deepti!
Then let them have their heads chopped off rather than live this life of drudgery!
At the end of the day, if it all boils down to leading a good life, then isn't it better to die, trying to achieve one. If not you then others will be benefited!!
Aren't you, in a way, supporting those who whine ?!?(i am depressed, I am in fear, i am not having a good life, i am not been treated fairly.. etc etc)
**It is like blaming a rape victim for wearing a skimpy skirt and provoking a man to rape them.
So true!
No woman deserves to be treated according to what she wears or the culture she comes from. There's no excuse to be cruel.
Keshi.
or sme girl child, who is drowned in milk in places like Rajasthan, just after birth, even w/o the mother knowing about it.
Ohh so sad.
and sme other young girls, going back from college to their hmes.. on the way they are just pulled into vans and taken off... raped.. and killed :(
young girls, who dnt even knw.. what rape is.. are raped.. not once..but multiple times .. and sometimes by their own fathers and bros and maybe uncles.. and the mom's send their daughters for flesh-trade.. ohh--so willingly :((
of the way women are treated in jails. that flesh trade happens their also. and the women jailers.. send fresh women to their police men jailers... and so many...
i feel so bad when i read about it.
And aminly of never be able to travel newhere.. and not feeling safe.. and to "Depend" on a male for their safety.. damn!
I wish there was an end to it.
I must say, ego-centricism isnt only with kidz...there are certainly moronic imbecile-ic men who never grow up n remain tat way!
Very strong but thought provoking post. Even in India, the statistics are shocking....
Just go thru this...
http://www.opinionasia.org/ViolenceagainstwomeninIndia
@Sol : Equality!There are men who claim that it is a equal world?How dumb unrealistic they are!!! We are far from equality..n on this no one can dispute!
n u know 1 more thing that pisses me of..men who empower/give freedom etc to the women! Who they hell are they to give us freedom..Freedom belongs to every single individual..no one can give it to no one!
hmm....what you say is true...we can't deny what is happening and what has happened...our job is not to fight with egocentrism but to think and emancipate...
@ Gunj, I surely will at some point. I did an immersion project for my degree on Islam and I am very much aware of what goes on in that community and the rationale behind it.
@ Nirmal, yes but for humanity's sake, we should be empathic even if it is THEIR war and not shrug off their problems just because we are in a better state than them.
@ Crimson feet, depression is not a choice. People do not choose to be depressed about their situations just like you do not choose to have your heart beat faster when you are startled. It is a physiological response triggered by mental activity. If you have done well in your state of misfortune, that is good for you. But to expect everyone to be in that mental state despite your problems being completely different than theirs is an unrealistic hope and expectation. Moreover, this is a global issue..not personal issues that we are talking about.
I do not think it is right for us to judge whether the Afghani women should get their heads chopped off rather than live such a life. They want to live. And if they have no means of doing that in a safe environment, some reform needs to happen. And this is definitely NOT whining. These are genuine issues that we can only imagine. Once again, to be depressed is NOT a choice.
@ Keshi, it is very surprising for me that the men actually think that if these women want to fight its their battle and none of our business.
@ Veens, all this is very cruel. And yet somehow, these victims end up being blamed. I have often heard people saying that if only the rape victim had dressed appropriately, the man would never have been provoked to act this way. How then does one explain the rape of fully-clad women and children?
@ Preeti, and yet they stick to their opinions, no matter what. I wonder if it all boils down to ego and the privilege that they have of being born "superior".
@ Karthik, there are all kinds of statistics for so many different countries. And India is not far behind. Yet, because WE are fortunate to be born into a liberal family, we think that the entire world has changed. Sad, isnt it?
@ Pavi, yes there are not only men but some privileged women who claim that it is now an equal world. There are also some people who think that these women do have a choice in continuing to be in those situations and if that they do not want to help themselves then no one can help them. The post fails to make its mark. Egocentrism prevails!
hey you dont visit me?
Very thought provoking post. Awareness is one thing - how or what should one do to make a change any suggestions? - being in postion that we are, the only thing one can do is donate but thats like an excuse....
Just a question - not generalising - but in my observations I have seen that women are womens worst enemies...is that true - like if say I help someone - she will start to kinda own me and then if I try to help another in the same situation - all hell breaks loose...
Fair enough! But you are completely missing the point.
Problems are relative, and everyone has their share. There is someone who swam the english channel without both his legs and hands. I repeat, problems are relative!
And theres nothing global about this. At the end of the day, each person has to fight their own battle in life and each life is full of detail and opportunities, which you have missed mentioning while talking about the woes of these woman.
Forget it. I am sorry. I don't think i can put this across very easily without getting excessively involved in the discussion. We both are, probably, the type of people who'd grab every opportunity to help someone lead a better life. Just that, I'd want to make them capable of leading it even when I am gone, so that they could do the same for someone else!
@ Vishesh, yes but how!?
@ Ashu, I do but your blog is private.
@ Ceedy, I do not know how to make changes. I am sure where there is a will, there is a way. I do think that awareness is the first step though. There are so many people who do not even care or know that these problems exist.
About your other question, seems very specific to me. Its hard to answer it without knowing any dynamics but I think that a lot of people do have that sense of "entitlement" when they are helped. Women are indeed women's best enemies. I believe in that. Have you not heard women say in here that they are more comfortable with their guy friends?
ok wat if we shrug..it makes no difference...
wat if we feel sympaty 4 them...make no difference..
do something 4 them if we can.....
i feel spreading awarness is also waste of time...one dont do anything and they spread awareness..
one shud do something first then speak bout it..
well above thing has nothing to do with ur post..this is my personal opinion..
Sneha, CRY Detroit chapter is going to have a Walk for girl child in India and US in June. Please come to Detroit. I will let you know the details.
Also, all you guys who are around here are welcome. It would be a great honor to invite all you talented bloggers for the WALK so you could spread the word.
Sneha, thanks for starting this Movement...
"I am against war, since war means destruction, hurt and ruin. Nobody should like war especially when all the great powers of the world gang up against one country in an unequal war and try to destroy all signs of progress and make the country go back to the middle ages. People are starving to death and inflation is murder. Missiles and bombs do not think, they hit and explode-whether you are military or civilian, sick or well, old or young, men or women, you die. Where do you go to hide?"
-- Iraqi woman over 50 years old
PAIN..!! Aah..
Doin' my bit.. And no am not feeling relaxed for that... Coz its too fuckin' minimum..
Sigh..
AnyWay Great Post Gal..
Break the mould....if you think you are a fossil....
@ Crimson, Vice versa. I think you are completely missing the point too. Its not just one woman being made to wear the burkha. Its the entire population. And many more in other countries. How is it then not a global issue?
@ Nirmal, not being aware of problems and simply doing things is like writing a research paper without doing the research. BTW, I am not asking you to show sympathy. Am asking you to be empathic. I have done lots for the underprivileged. Have you?
@ Mansi, give me details later. I hope you know that I cannot walk beyond ten minutes though.
@ Am in Trance, at least you are being empathic. At least you do not think that people's battles have nothing to do with you. At least you have a desire to do something. At least you are not being defensive. At least you are acknowledge that these problems exist. That is a start.
OK kid... I agree I don't see the point.
Now I have a suggestion for you. Check out Avanoo.com. These guys have a very interesting model of bringing together all the people in the world who want to make this world a better place. One can help by sharing thoughts and ideas by creating and posting to "projects" of numerous types. For every project thats related to a cause, these guys pay a certain amount to non-profits associated with that cause. Thats secondary though. They are also getting affiliated with UN for 2 of their initiatives.
I think you should check it out, and it'd be great if you use this platform to share your experiences and thoughts. Building awareness, as you also mentioned, is the first step.
sad but true
ur last para said it all
its decreased by a fraction over the yrs but still very much prevalent .
n sometimes really wonder the root cause of this !!
cheers
very true..ur post desperately makes me think. Some tyms i wonder, where dis world heading to??
What you said is very correct. I am her, but where it has happened for most of us, others still lurk in darkness.
What we need to do, is acknowledge them first and then fight for them.
They talk of gender equality everywhere...but its obvious it hasn't reached the parts where it had to. Seen and read so much about such oppression it hurts to even think of it.
You forget it could happen right here in our own house, emotional harassment: where the woman puts up loads of shit, only 'cos of society and her guilt. It gets really hard to draw the line at such things...btu if it gets dealth with someplace...i'm sur eit'll crop up elsewhere
totally agree that gender equality is still a distant goal n A LOT needs to be achieved
but i have a problem with feminism edging on FCPism...
which again is a very thin line
Yeah, well, I am not her, but hey, I am much better off than my mom or my grandmom was, and my nieces are much better off than I was!
So I am just happy to see the progress, and happy to see that our world continues to be a work in progress. As long as there IS improvement, I am not complaining! I will be ever grateful for the changes that are coming about. Yes, there's a lot more that needs to be done, but its not going to happen overnight, hoga, ek din, maybe not in my lifetime or yours, things will all be different.
This is so true....
par tu inne gusse mein kyoon hai?
There is one more picture.whom we should blame and why...I do not know about other country but i can tell one thing..these problems r created by ones mentallity...and these women r creating problem for other women..victims and culprit are same....this is the case in india
a lot of very poigant issues...some created by society and some by women themselves.....it's sad
this post made me realize i'm glad i m 'me' and not 'her'.....but then we all stop at that...don't we?
Do you think that a girl child in Africa who is born into a multi-millionaire's family is treated fairly and has a choice of being or not being in that situation?
Do you think that a woman in Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan who has to strut around the city in skimpy clothes everyday, unable to ward off adulation and attention, despite knowing the consequences, because their fathers are rich tycoons, and has to give in to pleasure, is being treated fairly and has a choice in being who they are?
Do you think that when a girl child in countries such as China, Korea, and India who is given precedence and reservations and favored, or even admired after she is born because of gender favoritism is in a fair position and has a choice in putting herself in the position of all this adulation?
Do you think that the women who continue to laze around at home in the remote villages of India shying away from the duties of both homemaker and bread winner, do so out of sheer contempt for their husbands and the male specied? Do you think that the luxury afforded from the the society to lead this lifestyle is fair and that the girls have a choice in going against them?
Disclaimer:- The response might seem spiteful and utter BS. But i comes at an ugly time where my sympathy for the fairer sex is at an all time low. For every scenario, (you) feminists throw at me directed towards a sympathetic cause, provokes an (albeit arrogant) counter argument against it.
For the record, this would be the first post of yours that i disliked. Sorry.
it is a biased, not fair, stupid world. at least we understand the shortcomings of human 'attitude' politics.
I think most negative answers comes from people who are really fcking lazy to do anything right about the wrongs...so they just stop to say 'hey you feminist' rather than acknowledgin the fact that things are bad, have been bad...and they are in a position to make it right. coz u know it takes alot of time and effort that this materialistic wankers cant afford...
nuff said. the world will be changed by the world itself. in time. and remember...at least...the least we 'did' was by knowing that the problems exist.
p/s: green sucks girl..it sucks!!! :p and the music u put there...it doesnt reflect the gravity of the posts...so remove it or just choose some classical thingy. hugs.
NO! im not...and thank heavens for that :-/
It's a naked truth... and you just unveiled it. Its unfortunate... Yet it still prevails :(
egocentric can be an adult too.
good post.
but it is sad that little can be done about the traditions. Only time can change that.
@ Nik...
Well, this is a reply to the post saying that the life led by women in remote villages in India is a luxurious one due to their willingness to serve their husbands by choosing home to workplace.I wonder when these so called "lazy" women ever had a chance to step their foot outside their home to make a mark in the male dominated world.
I think it is an extremely hilarious statement unless pun intended.
One of those things that may take aeons to change just like terrorism hasnt been nipped in the bud.
Sad bt true...
in midst of all the revolutions that we are having , technologically , economically and otherwise... the fact exists tht the women are really kind of manipulated in the third world...
In india , definitely the situation is on the improve.. with feminist organizations coming to action (some of them are real trash tho) , the situation does seem to be improving....
good post as always...
@ Crimson, KID? Will check the site out.
@ Mohak, thanks!! BTW, if you read the next post, keep mum about it at home.
@ Mez, true.
@ Vasanthan, and new generations. But some newer generations continue to learn the orthodox traditions and follow them.
@ Emperor, as we clearly can see all around us.
@ Neeku, and yet people like to close their eyes and pretend its not there.
@ Pri, yep!
@ Ghost, thanks!! For those comments and the critique. :p
@ Nik, OMG! I knew that you were an MCP but such a big one...that's a shocker!!
@ Gazal, no some of us don't stop at that.
@ Rakesh, thanks for the input but I do not agree with you completely. Not all women are responsible for putting other women in such positions. Do you think that a dowry death is caused by another woman?
@ Anjuli, tu nahi samjhegi. Chhod de.
@ Aneri, I hope so. And I hope that WE in our present times do something for the future generations.
@ Anurag, so once again women are considered FCPs for fighting for their rights.
@ Prats, very true.
@ Poison, and how do we do that?
@ Debasish, its getting better..but at a snail's pace.
@ Aditi, yeah I wonder too but I guess that does not even matter anymore.
wow... i m lucky to be the last one for posting the comments. Well i dont have to say much abt my views but I am amazed with the topic discussed here.. everyone was so true and sneha you narrated this topic so well..so nicely..!
all credit to u, sneha..!!
i love this post.
Something a friend said to me (while we were discussing Taare Zameen Pe and dyslexia), keeps coming back to me so often. He said 'Deepali you make up a small % of the population - educated, urban, working, independent, well off, most people don't live the life you do'. Now I know this for a fact especially living in India where I can SEE the contrasts everyday but somehow, someone saying it to me, made it really sink in. And nearly every other week, his words come back to me.
It is tragic but human to not look/feel/think beyond our limits/experiences/understanding and therefore teaching kids compassion is so important if nothing else.
In school when I used to get called a 'feminist' I would turn to the guys and tell them they should be one too cause women needed all the help they could get from wherever it came. It shut a few of them up but the others didn't even bother to think about what I said.
Life is difficult for many and will stay that way for most of them. The least you can do I guess is at least is not add to the difficulty.
maybe a 2yr old kid shud cover her boobs and butts :-/
i'd say "fortunately im not her"
but i wanna applaud the way u put the truth across!
I agree with the gist of this post. I have myself blogged about this at Gender-Bender: Anti-Female Society
However, sad part is many women (mostly feminists) refuse to differentiate between "women are equal to men" school of thought and "all men are b******s" school of thought. They equate "feminism" with "eradication of the male"! This puts up a big roadblock in the path of uplifting the downtrodden weaker sex - doesnt it?
Even respected bloggers cannot help but stereotype men. Just look at the third comment in my post which I mentioned above. The comment comes from a respected blogger (whom I happen to hold in very high regard). But her comment indirectly says something like "most men are insensitive or couldnt care less about the plight of women" - and positions me as an exception.
Is this true? Is this fair? Why dont women stop to think about their father/brother/husband before stereotyping men thus?
And again I ask - We could do with a lot less of such unnecessary stereotyping - couldn't we? Women can only gain equal status as men with equal contribution from both sexes. Men and women need to work together for such a cause - instead of warring till eternity!
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