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Saturday, October 11, 2008

Hail the Queen!

Just got back from a club where Bally Sagoo played his music and did whatever he is good at. Meanwhile, there were men all over trying to grab girls' attention, shaking their hips vigorously, and trying to touch them wherever they thought was safe enough to not be slapped in return. On the sides, there were a few men who perhaps thought they were quite macho and ended up in a fist fight. It seemed straight out of a movie, where the two men in question were punching each other in the stomach, and other men were trying to stop them. Alas! They got kicked out of the club by the bouncers. Meanwhile, a guy comes up to me and puts his arm around my shoulder as if to protect me, as I gaped in shock at the men in the fight. I shrugged and pushed him away.

Not too much later, a guy came up to me and said, "Yaar. Tu badi soni lag rahi hai. Teri umar kya hai? Haan I know its not good to ask a girl her age but still..bata de." I simply shrugged and said, "I am not telling." He left. Another guy immediately made the decision to take up his position and tried to grind against me. I froze. And thus, the night passed with me trying to avoid the sleazy men and they trying their hardest to woo me. The last guy I met in the club was the funniest. He held my hand and said, "yaarrrrrrrrr sneha...number de de yaar!" I said no and walked out. And if you know what my latest post on Warm Fuzzies is all about, you perhaps also realize that I have the least amount of patience for guys who are trying to win girls over based on their so called non-existent charm.

A few days ago, a guy friend of mine asked me not to apply perfume in his presence. When I asked why, he said, "I would like to believe that girls naturally smell lovely". Is that what we always were and will continue to be? Are women just sexualized objects meant to be great to look at, good to smell, and sensual to hold? Are men not looking for like-mindedness, ambition, intelligence, and love? Are we women mere showpieces always under the pressure to look great. How come we have to tolerate men farting in public, growing their nose hair, and flaunting their measly chicken legs during the summer while we have to always be well-groomed?

Are women never going to be taken seriously? Is Sarah Palin going to end up being the vice-president of the United States only because she is "hot"? Will I always be a Barbie Doll?

201 Words of Wisdom:

aneri_masi said...

Measly chicken legs :) ROFL :) That is SO correct! And big pot bellies!

I think women will be taken seriously when ALL women take themselves seriously! When we all know and FEEL we are just as good, and sometimes better than them. Not just a few of us, it will need ALL of us to have that attitude. Not before that!

Nitin said...

aree jisne age pooche thi usko bol deti .. just 2 more months for sweet 32... apne aap bhaag jaata ..heheheh.....

preeti said...

whew, certain men suck bigtime. Not understanding the beauty radiating from girls from deep within. And it also depends on the girl to an extent. We should surely know to filter the wrong ones from the good ones and keep a distance.Cheers:)

aadi said...

god!! solitire... OCD, no vacancy and now this.. i think u got urselves an OCD here :-). or r u imagining things?? there is good reason to believe u r hallucinating.. bally sagoo concert?? that is one thing ppl wont even attend in their wildest imaginations.. :-)

praise the guy who said, "I would like to believe that girls naturally smell lovely".. that gives me an idea to vent off such guys.. **evil grin** got me no?? :D

==Are women just sexualized objects meant to be great to look at, good to smell, and sensual to hold?==

i disagree; women are all these.. but i dun think these form even 1% of the whole package.. the most intimate moment is just the opposite i infer; hardly any dress, all sweaty and the hold is anything but sensual, 'wild' suits better..

==Are men not looking for like-mindedness, ambition, intelligence, and love?==

of course we are.. this forms the 99%..

==Are we women mere showpieces always under the pressure to look great==

NEVER.. but don't u women dress well, be well and smell good for urselves?? we honestly appreciate the effort u ppl put behind all these.. but no pressure from anyone..

==Will I always be a Barbie Doll?==

the choice is urs..

@aneri, BINGO there.. its high time women need to believe themselves that they r equally good or better in some respects..

Ankur said...

Well If you are gonna be at the wrong places at the wrong time with the wrong guys, and then if u blame "us" then i dont think u r right always!!! :)

Just like most chics just want hot guys, who have lots of money (just read in a post), and who are asses when it comes to smartness, then i assume men do the same, the only problem comes is that suck geek or nerd ones dont woo u so obviously or explicitly.

I guessed ur reaction not because what u wrote in the last post, but coz the behavior was indecent by most of those men, and i think when he said smell good... ( i dont think i want to comment on this one!!)
So just to fuel on ur agitation, it helped... Men are not always fool but it depends on the company u choose!!!!

As u said, some "wise" men, u categorized them for urself and so more of it that u shldnt blame everyone!!!

Like-mindedness and intelligence are always taken care of when u r looking for love or partner, i dont think any of them were looking for that...

Take Care,
Ankur

Hiren said...

my comment on Warm Fuzzies was just a passing remark ... but now i seriously feel that the lackness of good guys around you is whats troubling you ... someway i relate to this :)

and not all men think and visualize women as sex object only ... just that seems like you are meeting the wrong set of guys recently ...

** "tu badi sohni lagti hai .. teri umar kya hai??"
- ha ha ha ... funny

Bally Sagoo playing in a club there ... hmmm ... cool ...

comfortably numb said...

yaar sneha...thand rakh:)
lots of us guys take women seriously...yes thr's still a long way to go but things r definitely changing!!!
as 4 ur bad exp...lets just say tht u probably landed up @ a place full of morons:D

Ankur said...

and u know... if u ask...
If men every grow up?

Answer is ...
Can a dog stop licking himself?

just heard of it!!!so forget it!! :D

This is just to make u laugh!! :P

Cheers!!

Prakhar said...

hey raam Angle (SOL)...really pathetic guys around...
**yaarrrrrrrrr sneha...number de de yaar!**

Bloody despo psychopath *fuming eyes*

really ashamed!

kindov agree wid aneri...but guys like these need to be taught a lesson...nd some manners perhaps!!

nd u r a wonderful person nd gr8 psychologist...the best i know (though i know only one :) ..but still very best)...so u can be whatever u want nd not what some jerk around the corner want!

Still thinking said...

Lol! I like humour even when it's subtle :)

Being wooed and appreciated with tall claims will always be a womens' prerogative - which is not bad always, but hey, men can only treat a woman in an undesirable manner only if she allows him to - yes, she has the choice and she should have the guts to stand for it. Men don't have the audacity to do anything otherwise - a firm look, a straight hands off talk and after that they know where they stand, until unless they are real assholes.

I have never come across being treated like this - it's a different thing altogether that I practice Karate :p

P.S: Palin. Blame the media for focussing on her legs more than her speech.

Neo said...

Good question. But i don't think that's entirely true for everyone. Its what part of personality you want to showcase and play on.

If palin thinks that she can easily win by lookin hot (which i think otherwise) and not by brain power, then we knw where the problem is...isnt it?

Jack said...

Solitaire,

I agree that women should be treated at par and given due credit for their intelligence as well as elegence. Visited Warm Fuzzies. Had a good laugh at your encounter with big while dog in " your " apartment. LOL.

Looking forward to your visit to my space.

Take care

Solitaire said...

@ Aneri,

I guess that day is a long time away. I do not see how that is going to happen without empowerment from the society.

Solitaire said...

@ Nitin,

And so 2 months short of 32 is not woo-worthy?

Solitaire said...

@ Preeti,

I guess some women also learn the hard way. We are not born with that instinct. Over time though, I do get strange vibes in the first 5 minutes of meeting someone and tend to stay away. Not always possible in public situations.

Solitaire said...

@ Aadi,

I think you are beginning to be judgmental here of me. Are you?
It was not a concert. He was playing at a CLUB. He was a DJ. What is wrong in visiting a club where Bally Sagoo is the DJ?

Thanks for your input.

Solitaire said...

@ Ankur,

Thanks.

****Well If you are gonna be at the wrong places at the wrong time with the wrong guys, and then if u blame "us" then i dont think u r right always!!! :)

Who decides what is the wrong place and the wrong time? Its almost like telling the girl who is raped that she should not have wandered out at midnight alone.

***Just like most chics just want hot guys, who have lots of money (just read in a post), and who are asses when it comes to smartness, then i assume men do the same, the only problem comes is that suck geek or nerd ones dont woo u so obviously or explicitly.

I wish a nerd would woo me. I would give him my number instantly. :)

***I guessed ur reaction not because what u wrote in the last post, but coz the behavior was indecent by most of those men, and i think when he said smell good... ( i dont think i want to comment on this one!!)

Go ahead and comment. I would like to know what came to your mind.

***So just to fuel on ur agitation, it helped... Men are not always fool but it depends on the company u choose!!!!

I did not go choosing the company of the men who pestered me at the club. I had gone with three very nice people and they are great company.

***As u said, some "wise" men, u categorized them for urself and so more of it that u shldnt blame everyone!!!

I am not blaming everyone. I am asking questions here.

***Like-mindedness and intelligence are always taken care of when u r looking for love or partner, i dont think any of them were looking for that...

You are right about that!

Tazeen said...

/// trying to touch them wherever they thought was safe enough to not be slapped in return///


By far the funniest sentence of the day ... i have seen it happening so many times, i can picture this scene in 100 different ways.

Solitaire said...

@ Hiren,

***my comment on Warm Fuzzies was just a passing remark ... but now i seriously feel that the lackness of good guys around you is whats troubling you ... someway i relate to this :)

Its not that there are not great men around me. I went to the club with two extremely nice men and one woman and it was great fun. But obviously I am not going to write a post about the nice men in my life and bore you guys to death, right?

***and not all men think and visualize women as sex object only ... just that seems like you are meeting the wrong set of guys recently ...

Yes you are right about that. I seem to be meeting overly sexualized, lonely, desperate men of all ages recently.

** "tu badi sohni lagti hai .. teri umar kya hai??"
- ha ha ha ... funny

Seriously! I was amused too.

Bally Sagoo playing in a club there ... hmmm ... cool ...

Thanks!

Solitaire said...

@ Comfortably,

:)

I don't know why but your comment seemed to be comforting to me. Ok. Thand rakhti hoon.

Solitaire said...

@ Ankur,

Thanks!!

Solitaire said...

@ Prakhar,

Gabbbbu!

Hahahahahah!! You are so funny!


***and u r a wonderful person nd gr8 psychologist...the best i know (though i know only one :) ..but still very best)...so u can be whatever u want nd not what some jerk around the corner want!

Awww thanks!! Just the kind of stuff I needed to hear this morning during a hangover.

Solitaire said...

@ Still thinking,

**Lol! I like humour even when it's subtle :)

Thank God you see the humor in it. The men seem to getting all defensive. And see I remember you are a woman!

***Being wooed and appreciated with tall claims will always be a womens' prerogative - which is not bad always,

Yes, if done in a classy manner with respect (like in olden times ;))

***but hey, men can only treat a woman in an undesirable manner only if she allows him to - yes, she has the choice and she should have the guts to stand for it. Men don't have the audacity to do anything otherwise - a firm look, a straight hands off talk and after that they know where they stand, until unless they are real assholes.

So these men who will walk away are half assholes and the ones who don't are real assholes? I guess the responsibility should not always lie with the woman. She can say and do only so much but when people are drunk, things go beyond their and our control.

***I have never come across being treated like this - it's a different thing altogether that I practice Karate :p

I always have at desi clubs.

***P.S: Palin. Blame the media for focussing on her legs more than her speech.

Gawd!

Solitaire said...

@ Neo,

Its not about what Palin thinks. Its about what the men think.

sawan said...

man, why does all ur posts project " i hate men " ideas..?? maybe u r with the wrong crowd.. chill.. dnt strain ur brain on this.. uve got much better things to do!!

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

Let me tell u a story...I am scared of roller coasters, i find them nonsical..i rather would enjoy a toy train(very unmanly..huh :) )...but then once i gt into one of the roller coaster..and another scared rider shot me a shot of puke from up above..needless to say..i didnt enjoy it..though i was beginning to enjoy the actual dips and highs of pressure inside me... as ..guaranteed by the ride...

I never again rode one..

Who do u think i should blame...?

The ride owner..or the guy who puked on me..the puke itself .or myself...who took the desicion to try the ride instead of the safer toy train...

I am clueless......!!!!

Vandita said...

totally second aneri_masi...
and ure not a barbie doll sneha, dolls don't have brains... u do :)

SwAThi.... said...

Well it does look like Palin is in coz of her looks...

anyway loved the post...Had more fun reading the varied opinions here though!! :D

gunj said...

i guess such questions dont matter wen u hav the right ppl around u!! inne??

Neeku said...

The after parties are even more entertaining... to an extent of pain in ASSTray. Went once and was irked, irritated and digusted to the core..

Glad you survived.

Solitaire said...

@ Jack,

Thanks!!

I guess there is a lot more to laugh about than cry in my life so thank you for reminding me about it.

Solitaire said...

@ Sawan,

Do they really? Show me five more of those (which would make it less than 3% of my posts) and I will believe you a little bit.

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

I guess definitely not you for having to sit through that ride despite wanting out. Hope you see my point.

Solitaire said...

@ Vandita,

Thanks dear! I wish more people would recognize that.

Solitaire said...

@ Gunj,

One question. Yeh inne kya hota hai?

Yes you are right. Thankfully the right people don't behave this way and when they do, they are eliminated right away. I guess I should focus more on the rights in my life rather than the wrongs.

Thanks!

Solitaire said...

@ Tazeen,

Thanks!! I was beginning to feel weird when a couple girls here said that they have NEVER encountered this situation before. Thanks for the validation.

Solitaire said...

@ Neeku,

"You did not survive because you are incompetent." No its not me saying that but a lot of the comments here made me feel like men are allowed to do whatever but that the women should stand up for themselves and not complain.

Thanks for understanding my plight.

Solitaire said...

@ Swathi,

Thanks!! I guess it might be more fun for me to read the comments again once I am over this sick behavior.

nik said...

I can certainly sympathize with your experience at the club. My thoughts are that this behavior is more pre-dominant in desi-clubs. (I noticed this at a desi event recently as well).

I guess you need a change of clubs, or a change of company (easier to be impervious in a group of dancers/body-guards).

I'll concede about stereotypes that men hold about women, if you agree there men live with similar stereotypes hanging around their necks like the 'Sword of Damocles'.

btw, hey don't bad mouth our VPILF (Sarah Palin), she made the election so much fun with her 'dumb blonde' impressions. :)

nik said...

just remembered something from the desi club/event that I was at recently.

I saw much grinding and vulgar behavior, that it was a slight turn-off, considering that I was under the impression that desi dancing might have been of better taste (bhangra etc). The girls and guys were both equally into it though.

Two things that stick out from that night are the "wardrobe malfunctioning women" and "testosterone heavy men" lapping it all up. In that sense, are the men to blame?

I'm not insinuating that you were provocatively dressed, but I think that sometimes women set themselves up for such scenarios through improper dressing or behavior.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

***I can certainly sympathize with your experience at the club. My thoughts are that this behavior is more pre-dominant in desi-clubs. (I noticed this at a desi event recently as well).

I admire your courage to say this out openly even though there is a risk of you being attacked by those who will take that statement personally. I got another comment by a blogger who asked me not to publish their comment because they did not want to start a war but they said exactly the same thing.

***I guess you need a change of clubs, or a change of company (easier to be impervious in a group of dancers/body-guards).

True. I guess we do learn some things the hard way when we are new to a city. Thankfully, the people that I went with were super nice and quite cognizant of what was going on, and protective of me too.

**I'll concede about stereotypes that men hold about women, if you agree there men live with similar stereotypes hanging around their necks like the 'Sword of Damocles'.

Yes, it does work both ways.

**btw, hey don't bad mouth our VPILF (Sarah Palin), she made the election so much fun with her 'dumb blonde' impressions. :)

Haha!! SNL has also been so funny of late thanks to Sarah Palin.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

I guess a lot of desis are turning into wanna-be's and end up doing things to the extreme. Consequently, they end up looking stupid. If women are openly agreeing to that kind of behavior and indulging in it, then they cannot blame women. And yes, I was not dressed vulgar. Was not even showing my legs. Nor was I motioning towards any strange men to come dance with me. Do you think my question in this post stand valid?

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

Sorry there is a typo in there.

I meant...they cannot blame MEN.

nik said...

my guess is that, since you weren't accompanied by your partner to the club, men considered you as "fair game"!

"Haha!! SNL has also been so funny of late thanks to Sarah Palin." .. yup, Tina Fey will never enjoy as much popularity as now.

spot on about the "wannabes" ... although I must admit I was half tempted to join the mob myself. :(

Ghost Particle said...

heh :)

All hail the queen indeed. Wait...does punching them on the nose works?

bt i tink its certainly much better than the clubs here...i c too much force being used. hmmm. is it a desi syndrome? or just drunk ppl without orientation.

Anurag said...

It's important to have the right kinda ppl around ya ....
Not all men are like that though ...

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

Dear Solitaire.. all of your recent posts seems to echo the fact that u are disgusted with some strata of males..

it seems You as an individual fairer sex have all the rights to to judge and expect as to how a gentleman should woo a lady,what his pick up line should be .. how the men should nt hv hairs popping out of their noses..and shouldnt have measly chicken legs...you seem to know excactly how the male conterparts should appear,act and react ..to make u feel good...

Interestingly arent u doing the same...like men do..

so why the big cry....if men want woman who are sensual...sweet smelling ...with no nose hair pooping out..with a good pair of well fed dcuk legs...

and no i wd nt go to a club to seek someone of intelligence i wd rather go to a public library..perhaps go to a theatre...go somewhere which uses ones gray cells...perhaps to a orphange..where she might be taking care of the less privilaged..

Because my chances of getting across someone intelligent in a club would be comparitively much lowered...all i wd find is sleaze..covered up in varied stages of packagings..some open..some waiting to be opened ..so dont balme the guys so much..they have come their to find sleaze..and wd test all the packages available..before another opponent picks the pacakge up...with some funny pick up line...which presumabaly sweeps the feets off of woman of todays time...

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

You said : "Are women never going to be taken seriously? Is Sarah Palin going to end up being the vice-president of the United States only because she is "hot"? Will I always be a Barbie Doll? "

I did nt know who Platin was..neither do i have the inclination towards that name nor US...bt since you ..a woman ..who has acknowledeged that she is "Hot" has increased my curiosity and actually have googled her!!!!

sO SOL...tell me why wd a intelligent woman tag another woman as hot ? Doesnt that imply that u like other males...know whats hot and whats not....dont u think by understanding the difference u are acknowledging that we all be it men..or woman..know what it means to be hot...and what it takes not to be hot....

Dont you think...Platin ..another woman..is selling that trait of hers..and yes we the men are buying it...

why...because its a sellers market..if u have a sellable product ...and u are sure to get the buyers..we the buyers cd not have imagined a product..unless it was shown to us ...

Most of the responsibility lies with the woman..who are turning themselves into products...but i dont think that they can stop that anymore...they are selling their sensual self...like the animals..yes we are perhaps going back to our roots...the animals..


No woman - No cry.........:)

Aphrodite said...

hmmm....well well..pretty girls often have these kindof encounters...lol..a latino man tried to pick me up on the way homeyesterday night...just coz i looked "lost" apparently...creeps !!!

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

sorry i seem to be bombarding a lot of comments..but just yesterday i had been to a Indian Mall..and i saw this group of pubescnet gals in the tiniest of skirts..cleavage popping outfits...why wdnt a normal testestrone pumped man get tickled at the place where it should.isnt she giving all the signals that she needs one...or two..she is outrightly giving the "pounce on me " signals...why is she selling her hormonal induced curves..

U want to sell..and u shall get a buyer..and u canot choose the buyer..yes u can choose to not to sell...but then u wd have go through the transaction cycle...and its benefits and offences...

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

Tell me...dont you thinks u gals are taking us for a ride..u choose to use yr womanly charms at times ..its fragile nature at another...its weak aspects ..its sensuous nature at another..u hv all the cards to play...

at the next moment u act strong..u want to be repected..u do nt want to get special treatment

why cant the women decide to be on one side....you want to be at par with men...go ahead..and be ready to act and react the way ..men do...if u cant....just be what u are meant to be...

be womanly..act womanly..act sensuous..act repectable...use yr intelligence..and yes we like to hold the sensual you..it brings out the romantic..beautiful us ..hidden below that tough unwaxed skin....

the roles are so confused nowadays..that the men are slowly becoming weaker...affamate..and the woman are becoming more unwomanly...

lets go back to basics...let the man fart in the public..and make his presence felt to other males...the lowder the fart..the more dominant he is:)..and the bad men stay out of yr range...

Woman.....stay at home...let us do the hunting...else...my fingers wd become as soft as yours..i wd start waxing my legs..start developing sweet mellowed voice..cleavage..and the others...

lets stop twisting our basic nature...

¢яŷştąŁ said...

Oye..who told ya you're a Barbie doll?
I LOATHE them,and you ain't meant to be loathed! :D

And ROFL at *measly chicken legs :P

Ria said...

Unfortunate but true. Women r not taken seriously....and probably they never will b coz it wud require a major change in the mindset of men who believe that a woman's existence is for mere sexual gratification. Whenever we prove them wrong, they jus turn their faces away coz its too hard a fact for them to digest.

Nitin said...

// while we have to always be well-groomed

Is it because somebody asks, thats why we are well groomed.. or is it because we believe (or programed so) that if we look gud.. we presents ourself better..

I feel it is the later one.. and in that case we should look inward rather questioning others..

Stupidosaur said...

In the other cases you mentioned, the guys rightly deserve the verbal punching you dished here.

Though I have never been to any such place. But somehow I am imagining an ambience like the song "Ek gilasi do gilasi.." and ppl (guys) mokeying around a little more extreme.



But about the perfume thing, I really don't understand. What crime did the guy comit?

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

Seems with your bombardment of comments, that something in you has triggered and you have taken this post VERY personally and are very defensive. I wonder why.

I will answer your comments one by one.

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,


****I did nt know who Platin was..neither do i have the inclination towards that name nor US...bt since you ..a woman ..who has acknowledeged that she is "Hot" has increased my curiosity and actually have googled her!!!!

First of all her name is PALIN.
Secondly, I did not acknowledge that she is hot. I guess you really do not know how to read something which is put in quotes or do not know what that implies. If you do end up understanding what it means, then I do not really have to answer the rest of your questions in this comment of yours. Its self explanatory.

Solitaire said...

@ Stupid,

I don't know why but even a serious comment of yours made me laugh out loud!

**But about the perfume thing, I really don't understand. What crime did the guy comit?

Hehe!! I don't know how to explain it! Yeah I guess that's not fair on confused guys who are genuinely trying to understand. :(

Solitaire said...

@ Nitin,

Is that all that stands out for you in this post?

Yes, we should all be well-groomed and do it for ourselves. So then why do some men not have that internal locus of control but want the women to have it?

Solitaire said...

@ Ria,

Thank you for your comment.

Have you scrolled up to see some of the comments from men. They say that the responsibility lies with the women.

How are we to reach a mutual agreement amongst the sexes? After this post and its comments, seems like a mammoth task to me.

Solitaire said...

@ Crystal,

Thanks dearie!
I do not like them too but apparently some men like women to be that way. Sad, na?

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

***why wdnt a normal testestrone pumped man get tickled at the place where it should.isnt she giving all the signals that she needs one...or two..she is outrightly giving the "pounce on me " signals...why is she selling her hormonal induced curves..

U want to sell..and u shall get a buyer..and u canot choose the buyer..yes u can choose to not to sell...but then u wd have go through the transaction cycle...and its benefits and offences...

I am sorry but kindly do not assume that I was out there showing my cleavage or legs or giving out "pounce on me signals". I was very decently dressed, unlike those adolescents that you are talking about and I do not really deserve that kind of treatment from men. In any case, are you saying that men do not do the same when women are clad in sarees and covered up? I beg to differ.

Solitaire said...

@ Aphrodite,

I presume that you were scantily clad and were showing your boobs and skinny legs off for that to happen, right?

Uggggh! I understand how you must have felt and how cheap that is but some men think that it is we women who give out signals to men to do that to us and that men are naturally inclined to pick those signals up and entitled to react on them. So ultimately, the responsibility lies with the woman. How do you feel about this point of view?

Solitaire said...

@ Anurag,

I understand not men are like that. I have met some very nice men who are extremely respectful of other women. Somehow, I find that a lot of men who have sisters are very much in tune with how women would feel. I guess that is no surprise. I wish everyone had sisters! :)

Solitaire said...

@ Ghost,

Are you serious?????? The clubs in Malaysia are worse or do you now mean India?

I have not been to that many clubs in India and when I did, it was always with a boyfriend so I guess no one tried to do anything funny. I have not experienced this in gora clubs here too.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

That could have been a possibility. Its sad that I have to tag along with a male and act cosy with him to prevent other men from disrespecting me.

And about the wanna-be thing, as long as the phase wore out, its fine. I guess the problem lies with those who are stuck in it for long, ultimately being even more confused than the ABCD's that we deem to be confused.

Ghost Particle said...

wuts Gora clubs?

oh msian clubs are always overcrowded. worse i dunno...somehow everyone picks up someone on the way out...is that good or bad? been a while since i went to any.
wish we had a BuddhaBar there :D jst good music, we jst need good music. Ministry of Sound jst opened...mst check it out when i get back.

i meant the Bangalore clubs... cant last long there anyway, the smoke is too much. its full with Aussies anyway this week.

Solitaire said...

@ Ghost,

Gotcha.

Gora clubs are the local clubs, not the ones playing hindi music.

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

***Tell me...dont you thinks u gals are taking us for a ride..u choose to use yr womanly charms at times ..its fragile nature at another...its weak aspects ..its sensuous nature at another..u hv all the cards to play...

I have no idea what you mean by "womanly charms".

**at the next moment u act strong..u want to be repected..u do nt want to get special treatment

We do not "ACT" strong.

***why cant the women decide to be on one side....you want to be at par with men...go ahead..and be ready to act and react the way ..men do...if u cant....just be what u are meant to be...

Because these are no boxed categories. When you ask us to go ahead and be par with men, it gives me the feeling that there is a sense of superiority among men in your mind. Is that true?

***be womanly..act womanly..act sensuous..act repectable...use yr intelligence..and yes we like to hold the sensual you..it brings out the romantic..beautiful us ..hidden below that tough unwaxed skin....

So we would also like certain feelings to come out within us (without trying to sound tacky) and so therefore, is it ok for us to expect certain decent behaviors from you.

BTW, I do not know what's with the personalized response.

***the roles are so confused nowadays..that the men are slowly becoming weaker...affamate..and the woman are becoming more unwomanly...

Men are becoming "WEAKER", you say. Are you saying that weak implies womanly?

**lets go back to basics...let the man fart in the public..and make his presence felt to other males...the lowder the fart..the more dominant he is:)..and the bad men stay out of yr range...

Gross!

***Woman.....stay at home...let us do the hunting...else...my fingers wd become as soft as yours..i wd start waxing my legs..start developing sweet mellowed voice..cleavage..and the others...

I am appalled. I rest my case.

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

i agree with you sol..i need to improve a lot upon my english comprehension skills...after all English is a foreign language for me...i may or may not master it..i am trying my best to reach yr levels of profieciency .Hindi is my national language..
...The only time one would go defensive is when one lacks conviction in what they feel...i..would rather surrender if i know my convictions are baseless....but in the replies to you..i was all offensive..not just bcoz i wanted to..because i sort of knew what was going wrong...
If keeping myself in your shoes or in the shoes of society at large is taking things personally ..then yes...i would do it again and again...

Sol..i understand that the post by you was an event with you as the main protagonist (is this the right spelling ?)which you showcased..i sort of understand the emotions you went through ,and i wdnt want that to happen to my non existent sister...but then i dont need to ahve a sis...to empthasize with you and the likes

All i was trying to say is...the woman also wd have to stop selling themselves as commodities....

Now i feel you were defending yourself...by repeatedly saying that u were nt attracting any unwanted attention by any means...

Its not about you sol....its a problem with a broader range...lets stop being selfish..lets understand the roots of the menace you talked about....

You like many good citizens must be using environment friendly fuel, but their wd be many.. unlike you doing the opposite..but when the smog falls..its bound to fall on you too....

Lets act like levers to change the world ..worls aint that bad yet...with people like you around :)

My comments arent aimed at offending nyone..

Ghost Particle said...

oh. huh. Ok :D

the few i went here did not play hindi. hrc was nice.

Ankur said...

**Who decides what is the wrong place and the wrong time? Its almost like telling the girl who is raped that she should not have wandered out at midnight alone.

Firstly, I am certainly in no position to decide or tell u where or what!!!
Well its the same way as telling every men that u rnt a doll, and a woman must be taken seriously!
Secondly, i know the interepretation lies on the person reading but atleast there shld be some context made out of it!! :)


**I wish a nerd would woo me. I would give him my number instantly. :)

well, when the smartness is too much then only the dultish behavior is seemed to be accepted and liked...
so for u to find a nerd, i m sure u r not talkin abt a NASA scientist!!! (dont just think American now)

**Go ahead and comment. I would like to know what came to your mind.

I dont think if he is a frnd and u gave him permission to come to ur bedroom (Coz its where we generally wear perfurmes), then he was sexually inclined towards u necessarily, but he may just be saying a simple thing which was taken out of propotion!!!

**I did not go choosing the company of the men who pestered me at the club. I had gone with three very nice people and they are great company.

How do u expect ppl to behave after they are drunk??
After 2 shots everything seems to be hunky dory... not at all defending any of them, but thats the place u chose to be...

**I am not blaming everyone. I am asking questions here.

N i m just tryin to understand what the questions really are!!

**You are right about that!

Thanks...

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

Adj. 1. appalled - struck with fear, dread, or consternation
aghast, dismayed, shocked
afraid - filled with fear or apprehension; "afraid even to turn his head"; "suddenly looked afraid"; "afraid for his life"; "afraid of snakes"; "afraid to ask questions"

Please dont say that !!!You are making me feel bad about myself..

I dont need to say this..but i must add..i know many a woman who are stronger ..when i say stronger i do not mean ..physically stronger...they are the ones with strong characters..these are the kind of woman ..you automatically generate respect for..theirs something inherent in them which makes us respect them...not that they are not lovable too..
I dont even have to go very far..i find my mother the strongest woman i have encountered and she has instilled in me..the need to respect woman..many mothers cdnt do that to their sons...and that reflects..in the way you were treated...the woman i talked about are only adding fuel to the obnoxious gases ....

hufffffffff..am tired now..:)

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

I am tired too and I already said I rest my case.
Thanks!

Solitaire said...

@ Ankur,

***Firstly, I am certainly in no position to decide or tell u where or what!!!

But you did in your first comment.

***Well its the same way as telling every men that u rnt a doll, and a woman must be taken seriously!

I don't see the analogy here.

***Secondly, i know the interepretation lies on the person reading but atleast there shld be some context made out of it!! :)

I still don't get it. You don't see a context here?

**well, when the smartness is too much then only the dultish behavior is seemed to be accepted and liked...

Define "too much smartness".

***so for u to find a nerd, i m sure u r not talkin abt a NASA scientist!!! (dont just think American now)

What does that mean? One does not have to be in high positions to be a nerd.

**How do u expect ppl to behave after they are drunk??
After 2 shots everything seems to be hunky dory... not at all defending any of them, but thats the place u chose to be...

So are you saying that we women should stop going to places that we like to just because some men are not able to control themselves enough? People come drunk to concerts too. So should I stop going to concerts. People drink and drive at night. So should I stop driving at night?

I drink too. But I don't see myself flinging at men and asking for their numbers within 5 seconds of meeting them. It all comes down to the values that people have.

gaurav said...

its not ur fault.. however, most girls prefer to be better known as sexy rather than intelligent!

The ones who only have brain, wish to be known as beautiful too

and since u have both and since ppl appreciate ur beauty much more than ur brains. u feel that way..!!

But the appreciation of ur brain comes indirectly from the fact that so many ppl choose to and religiously write in ur blogs

Keshi said...

Excellent post once again Sol!

U managed to give a voice to many women, especially the newage, educated, smart, sensible and outgoing women. *I dun mean the slutty ones, I mean the REAL women*


Its like this Sol. Alot of men, especially DESI men, cant seem to DIGEST the fact that DESI women can be educated, independent, outgoing and still be unavailable for ROMPING. **Desi men think that stylish woman = Sex**

So these men try their MONKEY gimmicks on these smart women who go out and try to hv a good time.

God help these cranium-deficient men!



I say evolution hasnt changed men all that much...tho it has brought Women out of the closet. Men r still EVOLVING! Some of them r still at the early stages of Evolution *rolling eyes*, hence the pathetic behavior and the expectation of the women to be Blondinas, sex objects and mere kitchen-hands. Evolution still in process...


And the evidence for that? This post's comment section! Look at some of the MEN blaming it all on the woman, the dress and the place and wutnot EXCEPT those men? Im shocked! I cant believe there r men like that still around. Hang on, I did say they r still in evolution didnt I. *sigh*


My next comment will adress some very insensitive and 15th-century comments that I read here.


All in all, u were brave and said wut u had to say, just the way it is. Well done Sol!


Keshi.

Keshi said...

Now to some very interesting comments from some MEN here...


Ankur said:


** If you are gonna be at the wrong places at the wrong time with the wrong guys, and then if u blame "us" then i dont think u r right always!


What is a WRONG place? The club? So d u think that the girl who got raped in India in her own office was at the WRONG place?


A place is not right/wrong. And u should be able to go anywhere in the world and still be urself...thats a challenge and it shows CHARCATER. Never blame anything on the PLACE or DRESS ot PEOPLE. It's in the INDIVIDUAL.






Aadi said:


**or r u imagining things?? there is good reason to believe u r hallucinating.. bally sagoo concert?? that is one thing ppl wont even attend in their wildest imaginations..


You seem to GENERALISE everyone on Earth under what YOU believe is right/wrong? First of all it was a CLUB that Sol went to. Besides what's WRONG with going to such a place? The States is not India where a Club is seen as BAD and wife-beating at home is OK!





Still_Thinking said:


**men can only treat a woman in an undesirable manner only if she allows him to


d u think Sol allowed herself to be treated that way?







Sawan said:


**man, why does all ur posts project " i hate men " ideas..?? maybe u r with the wrong crowd


Why is it so difficult for some ppl to differentiate between I HATE MEN posts and SOME MEN HAVNT EVOLVED YET posts? Its not that hard to u'stand if u read the post properly. I get this all the time too. ppl think Im a manless, man-hating biyatch. Only cos they FAIL to read my posts properly and get the point. Not surprised!






Nik said:


**I'm not insinuating that you were provocatively dressed, but I think that sometimes women set themselves up for such scenarios through improper dressing or behavior.


SOMETIMES yes..but, not in this case. Besides, just cos a woman wore a short skirt and a cleavage-showing top, please don't assume that its an AUTOMATIC request to be HARRASSED! Men who expect women to be COVERED all the time are the real sexists. They r the ones who see women as sex objects.






Anurag said:


**It's important to have the right kinda ppl around ya


Do u always choose the people u wanna hv around u everywhere u go? hvnt u ever been to a place w.o. planning who's gonna be around u? I find it strange that some ppl think that they can always CHOOSE to be with a group of ppl wherever there go! *boring*






Blue_Kite said:


**and no i wd nt go to a club to seek someone of intelligence i wd rather go to a public library..perhaps go to a theatre...go somewhere which uses ones gray cells...perhaps to a orphange..where she might be taking care of the less privilaged..


LOL Im sorry but ur comments r really funny man! U seem to be living in the 15th century? I mean who does this...go to a library to pick up? ur not even supposed to talk inside a library! :):) orphange? LOL LOL LOL! NO COMMENTS.



**be womanly..act womanly..act sensuous..act repectable...use yr intelligence..and yes we like to hold the sensual you..it brings out the romantic..beautiful us ..hidden below that tough unwaxed skin


UNWAXED? lollllllllllllz! OMG I cant believe I read that!


So ur idea of WOMANLY is someone who stays at home 24/7, cooks meals for her husband, has never heard of WAXING *lol*, has long long hair that reaches her bottoms *enough to donate to Cancer council*, will be ready to hv sex with ya whenever u demand, will give u the other cheek if slapped etc etc?

Well guess what mate...such women hv EVOLVED a long time ago into modern, educated, smart, independent, respectable people of the 21st century. Bad news is that u still seem to be living in the 15th century...CATCH UP or be left behind in a cave.



**Platin

Who the hell is that???? do they hv a new rep for US vice-president? shucks 'Platin' must be Plato's sister then!



Keshi.

Solitaire said...

@ Ankur,

***I dont think if he is a frnd and u gave him permission to come to ur bedroom (Coz its where we generally wear perfurmes), then he was sexually inclined towards u necessarily, but he may just be saying a simple thing which was taken out of propotion!!!

I still don't get it. What has a guy "having permission" to come into my bedroom has anything to do with his statement and being sexually inclined towards me or not? Did I say he was sexually inclined to me? I was rather amused by the fact (and now miffed) that he wants women to be "naturally" smelling good. That is called DENIAL.

Solitaire said...

@ Keshi,

I think Blue Kite meant that his skin is unwaxed, not the woman's (implicating that is a major difference between men and women). It is for Blue Kite to clarify further if either of us are wrong.

Keshi said...

**it brings out the romantic..beautiful us ..hidden below that tough unwaxed skin


ooops I got it. tnxx Sol!


Men do wax these days btw @Blue_Kite.


Keshi.

Solitaire said...

@ Keshi,

Thanks!!! :)

I knew you would appreciate it.

***Alot of men, especially DESI men, cant seem to DIGEST the fact that DESI women can be educated, independent, outgoing and still be unavailable for ROMPING. **Desi men think that stylish woman = Sex**

I think a lot of desi men who are trying to adopt the western culture because they think it makes them look macho and all take things to an extreme. I am not only talking about the desis in the West but also those in India. They view the Western girls as those easy to take to bed. When Indian girls wear western clothes, I think the same message gets triggered in their heads.

***Look at some of the MEN blaming it all on the woman, the dress and the place and wutnot EXCEPT those men? Im shocked! I cant believe there r men like that still around. Hang on, I did say they r still in evolution didnt I. *sigh*

I was very shocked at some of the comments I received implicating that I had either not stood up for myself or that I had invited the behavior onto myself or that I had chosen to be in that situation so I am not allowed to complain. I guess in the end, the woman has to compromise.

Solitaire said...

@ Gaurav,

Thanks for the support and the validation that my brains do count.

Solitaire said...

@ Keshi,

Blue kite does not approve of the men who wax.

***Woman.....stay at home...let us do the hunting...else...my fingers wd become as soft as yours..i wd start waxing my legs..start developing sweet mellowed voice..cleavage..and the others...

lets stop twisting our basic nature...

Solitaire said...

@ Ghost,

Strange. Clubs in India do not play hindi music? And then people want to cuss at the western culture!

Keshi said...

tnxx Sol!


** They view the Western girls as those easy to take to bed


Thats exactly what I mean too.

Western = Easy

is a pathetic Prejudice that most Desi men seem to carry with em.




**Woman.....stay at home...let us do the hunting...else...my fingers wd become as soft as yours..



Actually i'd like some men to 'soften' some of that 'hardened' cranium and let it really WORK!




**i wd start waxing my legs..start developing sweet mellowed voice..cleavage..and the others...

not that SISSYNESS is not there already!


Keshi.

Southpaw unplugged said...

I second on aneri masi's comment on women, ofcourse it will just be a beginning though. As far as the parasites in the party are concerned, i can only say that they somehow loose their control and the pig within them comes out and goes bananas...

Ankur said...

Well thats the difference and u said it. The values... no one does it when they think its wrong, but when u dont have the ability to differentiate between the right and wrong, such things happen!!!

As u said, u dont go to men and ask them anything, same thing, even i dont do it!!!

and i m not at all sayin that u shldnt go to places, just that u shld accept that such people are there! They think they see an easy target... and thats the reason i say, Sex is overrated!!

I think in the first comment on mine i said, they arent looking for a lover, or a relationship, they are just looking for a one night stand!!!!


** was rather amused by the fact (and now miffed) that he wants women to be "naturally" smelling good.

If i read correctly, he didnt say that, he said, he thinks or believes that woman smell good naturally!!!

Cheers!!

Solitaire said...

@ Ankur,

Thank you but I do know the ability to differentiate between right and wrong and hence, I was not involved in a one-night stand that night as some other gullible girl might have been.

These are the exact words in my post.
***he said, "I would like to believe that girls naturally smell lovely".

Hope you understand the difference between what he meant and how you interpret it.

I hope this ends here. Thanks.

Solitaire said...

@ Southpaw,

I agree. Sex is a vital part of everyone's life and a basic need. But one does not have to be crude about it.

nik said...

@keshi and @solitare,
"just cos a woman wore a short skirt and a cleavage-showing top, please don't assume that its an AUTOMATIC request to be HARRASSED!"

forgive my asking, but could you explain to this "un-evolved male brain" of mine, what message you were hoping to send with that attire?

I'm in no way defending the vulgar behavior of the men (i think it is disgusting), but if you come dressed skimpily to a club and are attractive, then expect to be hit on.

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" comes to mind.

@keshi, btw I'm a frequent (passive) reader of your blog and at times enjoy the different genre of your posts.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

If you recall, I said to you that if the women asked for it, then they are to be blamed equally. And I repeat..I was NOT dressed skimpily at all. Now do I have a right to be upset or not?

Ankur said...

@Keshi

Well, first of all, y dont u read what i have written and then not try to fit words into my mouth!!!

I didnt anywhere in my comment said that she or for that sake any girl shouldnt go to a club, i said that such behavior can happen in a club and u and me know it. Also i am not saying that their behavior is acceptable but it certainly comes to values as Sol said!!


Secondly, y do u put up all the wrong things in place here, y to talk abt the girl which is raped now? I havent heard any of u talk abt it when it happened, but when u have to present a scenario for urself u present it as an example. Dont play with the dignity of that girl. Something wrong happened to her, and if i know who did it, then i wont be the one to sit and watch, rather i wud be complaining in the police.

Cheers!!!

Ankur said...

@Sol

and thats the reason u even wrote abt it, coz u didnt like it, but there are many who wud definitely say yes for it, and so the guys get a chance to try for another.

Nowhere, i have tried to justified the wrong, coz it is, but its upto u how u manage the dignity of ur own, and as u have done. In this world, every one is tryin to kill another's...

Cheers!!!

nik said...

yup, you most certainly have every reason to be upset.

I've been part of groups where I've seen guys in my group intentionally grope ladies at the clubs. Often these guys never realize that there are better ways to get a women's attention than violating their personal space (and body). Safe to say that I've never indulged in that behavior.

Pavi!!!! said...

How pathetic.....n i hate to say it..Typical!A majority(not all) of men lose all sense n act so stupidly when they say women.I wonder why. n many times it has nthg to do with looks or the clothes the gurl wears or the way she conducts herself...some creatures will go behind any female!

n i'm shocked by some of the comments here. Really who is to decide what is a wrong place or time or who is the wrong person!At no place n time is a guy allowed to act fresh with a gurl,ask her age etc.period.
Isn't freedom n a true modern world a place where everyone(man or woman) can do wat they want w/o harming any1 arnd them?

nik said...

Also it isn't always a "one size fits all rule about attire".

Mallika Sharawat or Aishwarya Rai would still get hit on in a club even if they were dressed as nuns.

Donald Trump would still be nagged for a job even if he came dressed in rags.

Point being - At times, the harsh reality is that beauty can be your biggest enemy and your dress sense can't always save you.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

Thanks!

Once again I thank you for your honesty in narrating that incident. It gives everyone a clear idea that these people who do that can be one amongst us and not just any tom, dick , or harry.

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

@ Keshi..

You surely have a good command over your language..but your content ..yr posts..yr replies seemingly offer negligible weightage...it all seems made up...i feel you need to grow up...and im sure when you do grow up u wd start diving deep into logical thought proceses rather than skim the surface...in an emotional way.

I must have exxagerated my interpretations in a few places(and ima sorry for that)..but then i was hoping that the intelligesia who visit this blog would skim through the exxagerations and absorb the core message.

I am perfectly fine with opposition..as i am open to change..but then i would appreciate been given logical...clinical counter messages...and not just for the sake of it.

You said :"LOL Im sorry but ur comments r really funny man! U seem to be living in the 15th century? I mean who does this...go to a library to pick up? ur not even supposed to talk inside a library! :):) orphange? LOL LOL LOL! NO COMMENTS."

Yes mam..u might assume that i come from the 15th century...i beleive the men of those time had more respect for woman than the average man of today.
Go on...laugh yr hearts out...but then like i said..u need to grow up..and not take the literal interpretations of statements..

Common keshi grow up...

You said:"Well guess what mate...such women hv EVOLVED a long time ago into modern, educated, smart, independent, respectable people of the 21st century. Bad news is that u still seem to be living in the 15th century...CATCH UP or be left behind in a cave."

Stop using dialogues which are so cliched...common give me something to think on..keshi..i know u can do better!!!Stop using worn out statements like a parrot....arnt u tired of this...cant u think for yrself..

You said "**Platin

Who the hell is that???? do they hv a new rep for US vice-president? shucks 'Platin' must be Plato's sister then!"

Great..you are at the wrong forum keshi...this is no comic strip blog..for yr girlish foolish laughs and wise cracks....go elsewhere..go to plato's cousin second grader sister "Banto" ..u wd find ideal companionship in her..


You said :"So ur idea of WOMANLY is someone who stays at home 24/7, cooks meals for her husband, has never heard of WAXING *lol*, has long long hair that reaches her bottoms *enough to donate to Cancer council*, will be ready to hv sex with ya whenever u demand, will give u the other cheek if slapped etc etc? "

keshi..So you must have seen all that at close range huh.. all of that..i fortunately havent , so what are you doing about it keshi?
except for yr wise cracks..and copied statements...

i wish todays mothers stayed at home for atleast some time..and had the drive to inculcate the need to respect the woman in their sons..wish they had more time ...Realize this..A mother is the first woman a man encounters..in a way the onus lie in her to instill respect in him for woman..regardless of whether or not she has hairs that reaches her bottom...common keshi is that how we should look at mothers...whats wrong with you...

I have no clues about having sex..in India we make love..and one cant force love on another..

I am proud to be a part of "Silent Noise" ...
I a man from the 15th century is still trying to guard the respect of woman around me..and i know we men and woman would have to work together in maing things work..make it more civilized..

Case closed keshi...grow up..learn to compare an apple to an apple..fine tune yr brain to comprehend complex issues..some scenarios demand logical..clinical..analysis...and their is no place for emotions their..

Keshi said...

tnxx Nik! :)


**forgive my asking, but could you explain to this "un-evolved male brain" of mine, what message you were hoping to send with that attire?


I didnt call YOU and unevolved man, did I? I was calling those men who treat women like that UN-Evolved. So dun take it upon yourself lol!



**"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" comes to mind.


totally agreed! but this post wasnt abt such PPL. Was it?


Keshi.

Keshi said...

Anku why r u losing it now? :) Read ur own comment...u said WRONG place for a club. No, the trouble is not with the PLACE. And thats what I was saying. So calm down!



**i said that such behavior can happen in a club and u and me know it

It can happen ANYWHERE. And thats what I gave u example of that RAPE case. And all u did was take it so PERSONALLY cos it happened in India! Not surprised at all :) If u cud point fingers at Western culture, clubs etc let us show u some bad things thats happening in the East too. Again, my point is, its not the PLACE. Its the INDIVIDUAL.





**Secondly, y do u put up all the wrong things in place here, y to talk abt the girl which is raped now?

Cant I talk abt it? Its a free world Ankur. Why d u sound so angry abt it?




**I havent heard any of u talk abt it when it happened, but when u have to present a scenario for urself u present it as an example.

It happened in India and alot of bloggers wrote abt it...and I contributed in their blogs. So wuts the matter Ankur? Should I come down to India and protest on behalf of her? I think not.




**Dont play with the dignity of that girl.

HUH? where is this coming from? Did I PLAY with that girl's dignity? When? How? Ankur sometimes ur points and accusation lack base.


I was only giving an example of how sleazy men r everywhere, not just in clubs or in the US. And all u cud do it take it personally and accuse me of playing with that girl's dignity. Yet again, Im not surprised that ur CONFUSED.




**Something wrong happened to her, and if i know who did it, then i wont be the one to sit and watch, rather i wud be complaining in the police.

So?? ur acting as if I raped that girl!


I dunno why Im even wasting time here trying to explain something that u'd never u'stand anyways. Instead u just dive into a totally different area and call me this and that.

Thanks but no thanks!




Keshi.

Southpaw unplugged said...

Exactly..thats what i meant. I have always believed that every man has a pig inside and every woman has a devil, its all abt keeping them in check, thats all.

Keshi said...

Blue_Kite I sympathise with the fact that u hvnt met ur embryonic needs. Long way to go man!


ur comment did NOTHING to me, despite the fact that u may hv had an intention to get to me by ur rather judgemental statements abt me, my posts, my IQ, my personality etc etc in it. U should hv just argued abt the topic in this post, w.o. getting so PERSONAL abt the whole thing. Big mistake! U cant do it, cos u were not trained to stick to the point. I see!


So its really u who need to GROW UP. Read ur own pathetic comments.


I hope u get wut u really need...some KNOWLEDGE abt the world and some skills to be able to debate in a public forum w.o. sounding like someone broke into ur house.


So I rest my case...I'd rather go jogging than argue with someone like u. Total waste of time and breath!



Good luck!


Keshi.

Keshi said...

**Ankur


sorry I missed the R in my reply to ya :)



Keshi.

Keshi said...

One more thing Blue_Kite..before I go for the run.


**...i feel you need to grow up

wut else d u FEEL? LOL!


Keshi.

Keshi said...

Southy...


**I have always believed that every man has a pig inside and every woman has a devil, its all abt keeping them in check, thats all.


well-said!


I only wish more Men (and women) admitted it...some dun even REALISE it!



Keshi.

southpaw said...

@Keshi
Thats the problem na...

Stupidosaur said...

Could you help the stupid guy(s) understand by elaborating?

Ghost Particle said...

not dont play, they do. bt the duration im here, i think i did not notice any...or it was lost in the noise. my friend here told me they do play loads of rahman, etc.

Nidhi said...

I don't deny that most men are like that.. but not all men are so sick...

All you need is to find the right people around you :)

I genuinely believe... its not about men or women.. but depends more on the individual how he or she behaves and thinks...

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

@Keshi

.. i do realize that i succumbed to provocation ..and perhaps i went overboard ..do excuse me..

As for me having a long way to go...yes mam.. i realize that too..i am going through a learning curve..

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

@Solitaire

Let me try to summarize my bombardments :)

# I like many empthasize with the trauma that woman are forced to go through by sleazy men..

# I in no way consider woman weaker..in my culture just being a woman means having strength beyond imagination.

# I feel the woman of today..who are sisters..mothers..wifes..have the reponsibility to instill the sense of respect in men towards woman.

# Since woman are more powerful..they have greater responsibility too..to portray that image. Let them stop selling themselves as OBJECTS of desire..theirs a lot of difference between being sensual and repectable and being vulgar.

# The men would have to learn to act less animal like ,and learn to respect the fairer sex..., they would need to understand theirs a lot beyond flesh..

stony said...

The guys you encounterd were there for flirt and sex. They seem to have mistaken you for an easy girl. After you warded off their advances, they must have found a real one.

Such characters are present at many events/ places where they believe plenty of easy girls will be available.

It's unfortunate that these guys cannot differentiate a decent girl from a bad one by looking at their clothes, make up and gestures.

The fact is that all societies have promiscuous men and women and it is not appropriate to single out one gender - male or female - on the basis of incidents we encounter.


@ Various comments

This fight betweeen feminists and male chauvinists will continue for ages to come.

We must accept and respect the progressive social changes taking place in society rather than lean on the historical roles of men and women.

At the same time, sentences like "Are women just sexualized...", "Are men not looking for like-mindedness..." and "Are we women mere showpieces..." appear to be grossly generalized, even if they were not intended to be that way. I think this has triggered this free for all debate.

rashmi said...

"Are men not looking for like-mindedness, ambition, intelligence, and love? Are we women mere showpieces always under the pressure to look great."

ive stopped wondering abt these things... i guess men are mightly surprised to find women who are intelligent and can speak sense...

sawan said...

u r smart :-) i changed my words:

man, why does all ur recent posts project " i hate men " ideas..??

AmitL said...

Hi,Sol-that's so disgusting,na-guys trying to prove their masculinity by fighting,asking questions of the sort they were asking you,et al..but then,I guess that's what makes them look macho to their friends,so,they behave thusly.Can well imagine your 'least amount of patience'.heh heh.
-----
Re. the guy friend who wanted you to avoid perfume-LOL-believe me,just ignore such remarks-if you'd not applied it,he's surely have asked' Don't you like perfume?'...remember the song' Kuch to log kahenge,logon ka kaam hai kehna'. And,it's precisely this kind of talk which people do at parties/seminars/groups,that makes me stay away from them..gimme a good blog/book to read anyday!Dost thou agree?

CALM B4 THE STORM said...

WOW! I don't know why guys think that it is OKAY to try every gal that they see... They need to learn some manners before approaching anyways!

Most men are attracted to us.. by what we are wearing.. I mean can we NOT wear what we want.. they get mixed signals and think we are out for what they want...

If I am out with my girls.. I have no intentions of trying to go home with anyone... Therefore you will never see me at a club by myself.. what happened to just a nice hello.. then strike up a convo.. NO they want to go all out by touching and talking a bunch of stuff that they dont even know what they are saying!

I have rambled LOL!! I am sorry just had to get some stuff off my chest I guess! lol

Nice Post Soli!

Mel Avila Alarilla said...

Those are questions only you can answer. Men will behave that way depending on the reactions of women.

APOO said...

Sol, if a nerd tried to woo you, you would instantly give him your number?

I am a nerd! Can I have your #? :P

The porblem is, nerds dont know how to woo. Have you seen 'A beautiful mind'? Good ol' Nash walks up to the girl and says something to the tune of, "I don't exactly know what I am required to say in order for you to have intercourse with me. But could we assume that I said all that. I mean essentially we are talking about fluid exchange right? So could we go just straight to the sex." Thats nerdy! But then... thats also Solitaire slap-worthy! No?

So, how does a nerd woo solitaire? (my question on short-n-sweet)

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

@amitl..

Your statement "Hi,Sol-that's so disgusting,na-guys trying to prove their masculinity by fighting,asking ......" sent a chill down my spine..what are you man ?
one just needs to be a sensitive human being to help someone in distress...macho or not...i feel you shd cut down on seing films which influence you so much...that now you think twice before any action...afraid of being labeled something or other...do your own thing..follow yr instincts..especially when someone might need help..If i had a sis, and she had to go such parties ..i wd feel safe..that guys like you hanging around..

The gal u tried to rescue might ruthlessly .. eventually tag you with some name..

Yes "Kuch to loh kahenge..logo ka kaam hai kahana" ..toom apna karm karte raho dost

And i do nt know about..the kind of parties you go to ...why dont you do this...this time instead of skipping those places...go their and be the change manager...drive the conversation ..the way you think is politically correct...without spoiling the party mood..

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

@ RASHMI "Are men not looking for like-mindedness, ambition, intelligence, and love? Are we women mere showpieces always under the pressure to look great."

ive stopped wondering abt these things... i guess men are mightly surprised to find women who are intelligent and can speak sense..."

#### i along with many men do admit that many of us still have the mindset that u have written about in the first para.

But beleive me their are men who arnt surprised nymore to find woman who are intelligent and speak sense...and that has happened because they have had someone ..a woman...who was close to them..and that fact gets more fortification with the woman he meets outside his closed circle...so the more woman he finds who are beyond the barbie doll image that was seeped into his senses..the more he wd beleive in the power of woman .

So ...while we are trying to accept yr strength,which is often more than men...the onus lie in you the woman..to make more duplicates of the REAL WOMAN.

Keshi said...

Blue_Kite hey its ok. We all make that mistake from time to time.

And yes Im still learning too.

tnxx!

Keshi.

Satish Bolla said...

buddy, i never understood the reason why every girl posts abt the men who r rude towards her or her friends? is it b'coz most of the men whom u meet or so?

all i can say is, times changed. there r more supportive men here than the offensive ones.

Pri said...

did someone call u a barbie doll???
chalo naari mukti andolan lekar chalte hain...actually i would find it insulting because a doll apparently has no brains :-/

///He held my hand and said, "yaarrrrrrrrr sneha...number de de yaar!"///
yikes! u mean the guy actually knows u?? *horrors*

well IMHO, if men cant get over their chauvenistic attitude, then its too bad for them...they need a reality check!!
some woman on the other hand, think that thats what they are being labelled as and plain accept it...
ever heard of 'more than the criminal, it is the person who suffers in silence that is to blame' ??

Solitaire said...

@ Pri,

No I don't know that guy! Apparently he found my name out and came and held my hand. I have never seen him in my life!

As for the phrase that you quoted, apparently it seems (from these comments from others here) that I am damned if I keep quiet, and I am damned if I don't! There is never a win-win situation for us I guess.

Solitaire said...

@ Satish,

You say there are more supportive ones than offensive ones.

Really?

Did you try reading some of the comments? People are actually OFFENSIVE in trying hard to disagree instead of being civil in expressing their opinion.

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

***So ...while we are trying to accept yr strength,which is often more than men...the onus lie in you the woman..to make more duplicates of the REAL WOMAN.


You have been saying this repeatedly in several coments. We are willing to accept that ONUS if the other is willing to take responsibility to do something about it. Ek haath se taali nahi bajti.

Solitaire said...

@ Apoo,

***The porblem is, nerds dont know how to woo.

They do! Special nerds do!

**"I don't exactly know what I am required to say in order for you to have intercourse with me. But could we assume that I said all that. I mean essentially we are talking about fluid exchange right? So could we go just straight to the sex." Thats nerdy! But then... thats also Solitaire slap-worthy! No?

No I would not slap this guy. I might chuckle and tell him he is funny. He might get confused but that is a different story.

***So, how does a nerd woo solitaire? (my question on short-n-sweet)

Nerds will find out soon on their own how they need to woo me.

Solitaire said...

@ Mel,

Here is another question for you.

When will men stop blaming women and start taking responsibilities for the actions?

Do you think this question too I can answer?

Solitaire said...

@ Calm,

***Most men are attracted to us.. by what we are wearing.. I mean can we NOT wear what we want.. they get mixed signals and think we are out for what they want...

While I am not in favor of skimpy clothes, I also feel that we should not be restricting ourselves in doing stuff that we want to just because we are afraid of what men might do. Someone here told me that I was in a wrong place. So now should I stop going to clubs to dance and enjoy the music just because some shitty men are not able to stop their sleazy behavior? I think its high time they started respecting women rather than asking them to stay away if they cannot handle the disrespect.

Solitaire said...

@ AmitL,

***but then,I guess that's what makes them look macho to their friends,so,they behave thusly.Can well imagine your 'least amount of patience'.heh heh.

I have heard that men are more preoccupied with their social image than women are. I am not surprised now that you pointed out about how these behaviors could be attributed to that very need to appear macho.
-----
***Re. the guy friend who wanted you to avoid perfume-LOL-believe me,just ignore such remarks-if you'd not applied it,he's surely have asked' Don't you like perfume?'...remember the song' Kuch to log kahenge,logon ka kaam hai kehna'. And,it's precisely this kind of talk which people do at parties/seminars/groups,that makes me stay away from them..gimme a good blog/book to read anyday!Dost thou agree?

I like social situations. But of late, I am beginning to dread the ones with young single men with "fishing" on their mind.

Solitaire said...

@ Sawan,

Really?

I have five blogs. Checked them all out. Nothing says "I hate men" recently in them.

Solitaire said...

@ Stony,

***The guys you encounterd were there for flirt and sex. They seem to have mistaken you for an easy girl. After you warded off their advances, they must have found a real one.

I hope so.

**The fact is that all societies have promiscuous men and women and it is not appropriate to single out one gender - male or female - on the basis of incidents we encounter.

Promiscuous???????????

**We must accept and respect the progressive social changes taking place in society rather than lean on the historical roles of men and women.

Some people want women to stay at home and stay beautiful while they go out hunting. I find that rather amusing.

**At the same time, sentences like "Are women just sexualized...", "Are men not looking for like-mindedness..." and "Are we women mere showpieces..." appear to be grossly generalized, even if they were not intended to be that way. I think this has triggered this free for all debate.

I hope you realize that the behavior is more gross than the generalizations. If people can create such a hue and cry about a "generalization", it is sad that they don't understand why I am entitled to create a hue and cry about extremele GROSS behavior.

Solitaire said...

@ Rashmi,

That's where the problem lies. We have to accept fate as it is. And then we get yelled at for accepting it. And then when we create a ruckus about it, we get yelled at again and are asked to shut up.

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

# I like many empthasize with the trauma that woman are forced to go through by sleazy men..

Thanks.

# I in no way consider woman weaker..in my culture just being a woman means having strength beyond imagination.

Apparently, many men in YOUR culture don't get it then. Oh wait. I forgot. Its my responsibility to teach them. Right!

# The men would have to learn to act less animal like ,and learn to respect the fairer sex..., they would need to understand theirs a lot beyond flesh..

Do you do that? I think your response to Keshi was quite offensive.

Solitaire said...

@ Nidhi,

Right! How will we ever know? And if this keeps happening over and over again, what does it say about today's youth?

Solitaire said...

@ Stupid,

What do you want me to elaborate?

BTW, only your name is Stupid. I do not think you are. I won't judge a book by its cover.

Solitaire said...

@ Ghost,

I don't think I will dare step into a club in India.

Solitaire said...

@ Pavi,

Apparently not. Men have openly admitted that they cannot do anything about this (as usual, the reason is genetic programming). It is the woman who has to bend backwards and do all kinds of things to protect her dignity.

stony said...

** Promiscuous???????????

Oops! Wrong term. Read - Every society has men and women hunting/ fishing for sex.

** Some people want women to stay at home and stay beautiful while they go out hunting. I find that rather amusing.

Some women want men to be busy earning money while they look out for sex outside marriage. And they blame men for not taking care of them.

** the behavior is more gross than the generalizations.

Yes. The extremely gross behaviour of three men mildly generalized to male gender.

** they don't understand why I am entitled to create a hue and cry about extremele GROSS behavior.

They would understand if you restrict it to the three rowdies you encountered.

There is no denying that their behaviour with you is absolutely contemptible. But why all men?

I would never criticize all women for wrong acts of a few women I encountered.

Preetilata【ツ】 said...

it's the same everywhere. :(

but women must learn to take themselves seriously

Mr Stupidosaur Wiseratops said...

Elaboration regarding why you felt offended by that perfume guy.

Yeah you don't judge a book by its cover, but employers judge prospective employees by cover letters :P (hehe job hunting these days)

But anyways even in my infinite stupid capacity I failed to understand the perfume puzzle. So pls elaborate.

Tuhin said...

Well, I just read the post and some of the comments. And I must say I am shocked.

I only believe that there is a decent way of doing something and an indecent way. I disagree with the statement that men are genetically programmed to be indecent! I mean, come on!! Why do we get an education and isn't there something called values?

I personally wouldn't expect anything better from a crowd gathered to listen to Bally Sagoo!! I assume he paid the audience!

Solitaire, I understand that the experiences you have had recently have been rough but I feel that you are coming out rather quite opinionated about men in general in your posts.

"I would like to believe that girls naturally smell lovely" - I can't even imagine what goes on in his mind. I hope he had an education.

Again, my intention is not to criticize but only to express my opinion. You can do the same. I am willing to have a healthy debate.

Solitaire said...

@ Stony,

This isolated incident of THREE rowdies is not as isolated as you think it is. Have gone through similar situations for a long time (decades) and you can say that the last straw broke the camel's back.

Thanks!

Solitaire said...

@ Tuhin,

Do you really expect me to have a "healthy debate" with someone who just called me opinionated despite knowing the context of the post?

Thank you but no thanks.

Solitaire said...

@ Stupid,

Because he is in denial! Why on earth would one like to believe that women smell wonderful naturally? The next thing, he will want to stop believe that women urinate as well!

Solitaire said...

@ Preeti,

And you think women are not? I took myself seriously and look at the comments I got.

Keshi said...

Stony its actually quite common here in Aus too...Desi men here would stop right in the middle of the road and stare at Desi girls. Its really rude. One even asked me 'where in the world r u from BABE?' WTH is that now?


I went to a club in my Uni days and this Desi guy came and tried to dance with me...but he wasnt dancing, he was trying to rub himself on me! I was so pissed I told my friend and we left the club. If it happened to me now, I'd hv slapped him then n there.


Im not a girl who goes nite-clubbing...but I dun think its just clubs or the way we dress etc. Its the INDIVIDUAL.


And most Desi boys, when they go overseas complteley lose control...cos they hv the FREEDOM here that they never experienced in their home countries. And they dunno HOW to handle that freedom!


Keshi.

jitendra said...

deep inside, everyone wants to get attention in his or her own unique way. Thats human. Women generally like to "look" good to get attention. It is almost intolerable for them to go to a party where they go attention-less. You too dress up for parties, I assume. You have a choice not to, but you still do. Why? B/c subconsciously it would pain you to feel unnoticed. Similarly, men too have their own weird ways to catch attention.

My point: behind everything - guys grabbing you in a nite club, guys proposing you in the most eww-inducing ways, girls talking to a lot of guys in the hope of finding that magical click, or girls dressing up for parties - there is only one drive: the need for attention, sexual or otherwise.

Solitaire said...

@ Jitendra,

Thank you!

I would prefer that attention is more subtle than an invasion of my privacy. Women too will comment on guys walking down the street and call them cute and what-not. But we do not go grope at their loins.

Solitaire said...

@ Keshi,

Thanks for normalizing my feelings but narrating your own life experience. I was almost beginning to feel like some men here were labelling me as this slut who was skimpily dressed and purposely went to a club for attention and was foolish enough to do so. Some have even commented on how it is to be expected at a Bally Sagoo concert. So after all its my fault that I chose to go. Not the fault of the men who chose to behave this way without any encouragement from my end.

Keshi said...

Jitters u hv a valid point but every reaction has a LIMIT.

No one has the right to make another feel uncomfy by invading their privacy, just cos they look good, do they?


Keshi.

Keshi said...

Its my pleasure Sol. I know how u feel...cos I've been there and felt VIOLATED on many occasions and NO I wasnt dressed like a slut asking for trouble.



** So after all its my fault that I chose to go. Not the fault of the men who chose to behave this way without any encouragement from my end.


Thats what some of the commentors here seem to be telling u. Its really SAD.


Keshi.

nik said...

@Solitare
Would you be this devastated if a cute gora guy in a club asked you the same question(s) with a sexy baritone voice and hunky personality?

nik said...

@keshi and @solitare
some food for thought - "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

Both of you hinted that such behavior is exhibited by desi guys at clubs in the states/Oz and attributed it to the freedom of the prevalent culture and their corruption as a result. This is very plausible, but lets look at it from a different perspective with a short story.

Our [non-ABCD] desi dude (lets call him khan) is a frequenter of night clubs, mostly non desi but occasionally a desi event. Khan likes the nightscene and is often seen grinding at the local disco with random females. He has his share of rejections, but it all part of the game. Khan is lead to believe that such behavior in this country is acceptable.

Khan travels back home every couple of years to visit his aging parents and old friends, who take him clubbing. To his slight irritation, he finds no one else grinding and attributes it to the lame culture. He adopts a "horses for courses" approach and saves his best moves for the overseas clubs.

He comes to a desi event in the states and we all know what his expectations are. Only in this case, he feels that his chances of striking gold (picking up a woman) have increased manifold because all the women around him are less intimidating (They aren't as big, tall or fat) than other phirangs and come from similar cultural roots. In this illusion, he forgets everything he had learnt about etiquette and is fully convinced that his behavior is apt for the occasion and setting. The alcohol doesn't help. There is no need to restrain and behave all prim and proper like he did in India, because he believes he isn't doing anything wrong. So same guy, same upbringing, same values behaves differently in different cultures/countries. After all when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Ok, enough about Khan. Lets focus on the women around him, dancing in the club. You have all kinds - the slutty ones, the horny ones, the shy ones, the ones who only dance with their girlfriends, the looking-to-get-laid ones etc. The same girls who do the bhangra at clubs in India are grinding away to glory. After all when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

If there is a disconnect between what the women and Khan consider appropriate behavior for the setting, it would probably got lost in all the noise of the club.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do and if Rome isn't for you, go to Venice instead!

Satish Bolla said...

well, i read most of the comments n felt that u've raised a small war, yet again... ;)

but, still i stick to my word abt the supportive ones. i've come across many many of such people. i don't know whether they'll mend their ways in the future, but still they r good to women. i hope u meet someone like that soon

stony said...

@ Sol

** Have gone through similar situations for a long time

I really empathize with you. Take care. Avoid places with high probability of rowdyism and lawlessness.

@ Keshi

I can understand.

I think it's because of their upbringing and the fact that they get away with it.

Thanx n tc.

Keshi said...

ty Nik!

**When in Rome, do as the Romans do and if Rome isn't for you, go to Venice instead!


The problem is 'romans' dont do what these 'desi' guys do here lol!


Open Culture dont mean VULGARITY.

Just like how Closed Culture dont always mean CHASTITY.



Keshi.

Keshi said...

ty Stony!

**I think it's because of their upbringing and the fact that they get away with it.

yes I agree..cos over here they dun hv anyone to control them, like family.


Keshi.

Solitaire said...

@ Keshi,

You hit the nail on the head.

Solitaire said...

@ Satish,

Thank you.

I have many supportive ones in my life. Was disappointed with the ones in blogworld though.

I guess expectations does lead to disappointments.

Solitaire said...

@ Stony,

Thank you.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

No I would not be because he did not touch me in your description. The desis did.

Solitaire said...

@ Keshi,

SHOCKING is the word.

jitendra said...

also, dont get me wrong. i am not justifying their acts. Victim cannot be blamed for the crime.
maybe that's how most, if not all, men are hardwired. Sad but true.

:)

nik said...

@keshi

I'd have to dis-agree, if someone were not looking through those rose colored glasses, they'd see for themselves that vulgarity and etiquette both cross cultural boundaries and nationalities. Pigeonholing it to desi men wouldn't be justice.

nik said...

@solitare,
ok throwing the ball back in your court ... would your contempt for the gora be this intense, if he had also violated your physical space?

Manasa said...

First, we need to trust ourselves. Never allow others to take us for granted :)

stony said...

Sol & Keshi

I am curious to know whether the western world and Australia are almost free from sexual harassment of women, like molestation, groping, rape, domestic violence, discrimination.

I always thought that all societies suffered from this with varying degree, more blatant and endemic in Indian subcontinent.

Please correct me.

Preetilata【ツ】 said...

no i dint mean that every women dont take them seriously. it happens many a time that women themselves believe that they have to abide by the rules that the male dominated society has made for them. not only the traditional women's feel so but the so called modern ones also.

yes i read some of your commnts andd it's seriously shocking.

few days back i went to meet my friend with my mother. it was a bit dark wen we planned to return back home. i stopped there 4 a min to say bye to my friend while my mother went inside the parking lot. but i went near my mother asap as 1 man had started following me.

misbehavior and molestation in buses are a very common thing.

where not?... no place is free of all such shitty behaviors :(

Preethi said...

Aah Sarah Palin.. I was rooting for her.. till I heard her!! Seriously what were they thinking?

R3d3MpTioN said...

baap re..!! If you anything like what u write .. I would dare not face you when you are angry ..[:P]
I think the first post sums it up the best .. when all of you start taking urselves seriously only then will the world take u seriously

Keshi said...

Nik & Stony,

**I always thought that all societies suffered from this with varying degree, more blatant and endemic in Indian subcontinent.


oyes...like I said before its the INDIVIDUAL...not the place, the dress or the culture. Read my reply to Ankur.


I was addressing some ridiculous comments here that suggested that it was indeed the dress, the place and the culture!


Nik rem ur 'IN ROME DO AS ROMANS DO' theory? That suggests that Western culture is VULGAR...but its not the case! The proof for that is how DESI men come and behave really STUPID in these countries, THINKING that thats the CULTURE here. WRONG!


Western culture doesnt mean SEX and VULGARITY. Thats where many Desi men here got it wrong - in this very comment section. thats why some men here 'blamed' Sol for being in the WRONG place, WRONG country, going to the WRONG concert etc etc...it was appalling to read such comments! Look at ur own comments and think.


Alot of desis who hv never travelled outside their home country DONT KNOW what Western Culture is until they come n live here. They just read books, papers, watch TV and make assumptions.


And take BOLLYWOOD's 'gyrating' changes for an exapmle...not very CHASTE is it? But all of u love watching those movies and r proud of Bolly industry?


Again my point is...its not the PLACE, COUNTRY or CULTURE. So stop blaming em. Blame the PERSON...and in this post its abt DESI GUYS living overseas. And Im in a better position to comment abt it cos I hv lived in both countries and I hv experienced both cultures, so none of what I say r ASSUMPTIONS.


So yeah, the ball is back in ur court!


Keshi.

Solitaire said...

@ Keshi,

Thank you!
That was well said!

*******Western culture doesnt mean SEX and VULGARITY.

Exactly!! But desi men think that it is. Remember the disgusting comment I had heard "Gori to bed. Desi to wed."

The same things happen in both cultures. Just that in India people do things behind closed doors and here people are open about it.

Just like INDIA is not all about poverty and illiteracy as shown by the media, USA is not about sex and vulgarity as shown by the media.

Solitaire said...

@ Redemption,

If you are not a touchy feely guy who thinks its ok to be vulgar with girls at parties, you are fine.

I have taken myself very seriously. But I see how wonderfully the men in this forum think about it. Its all about DEFENSE, OFFENSE, and the blame game.

Solitaire said...

@ Preethi,

I have no clue!
That she is a "HOT WOMAN"?

Solitaire said...

@ Preetilata,

***it happens many a time that women themselves believe that they have to abide by the rules that the male dominated society has made for them. not only the traditional women's feel so but the so called modern ones also.

Do you really think we can blame women for that? I am not a so-called traditional woman. I stood up for myself. Yet, I received flack from these so-called liberal men. If people BLAME me for being at the wrong place and choosing to hang out with the "wrong company" (even though I did not do anything to attract these men's attention), I guess the next time I will only keep my mouth shut and maybe stay at home to avoid this. Right?


***misbehavior and molestation in buses are a very common thing.

Maybe some men here will now say..."you chose to travel by bus so deal with it!!"

Disgusting attitudes.

Solitaire said...

@ Stony,

Discrimination, sexual abuse, rape exist in every country. There is no denying that. I have now lived half of the number of years I have lived in India, in the USA. And yet I cannot think of a single incident that made me uncomfortable in the presence of the westerners. But if I were to talk about the incidents of VIOLATION that have happened with me in India, I could write a huge book on it.

Solitaire said...

@ Manasa,

I did that. Don't you think?

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

I thought the answer to your second question is very obvious when I answered your first question.

Are you implying that I am some kind of a racist who likes to be touched by Gora men but not Indian men.

Horrifying. Did not expect that from you of all the people.

Solitaire said...

@ Jitendra,

Apparently, the "victim" here has been blamed for the "crime".

I got all sorts of messages on how it is the responsibility of the women to teach men how to respect women.

Does that even make sense?

Keshi said...

Spot on Sol!


** Just that in India people do things behind closed doors and here people are open about it.

Thats exactly wut I wanna say too. But it seems ppl r getting too 'patriotic' here instead of seeing the real issue.


u know, its not that Im supporting the Western culture and hating the Desi culture. Its abt breaking the 'Im-desi-so-I-should-stick-up-for-my-culture' mentality, and seeing thru it all w.o. any bias.


Like u said, when I was in Sri Lanka, I was harassed by rowdy men down the street and I hv never known anything like that here in Aus! I hv lived here for so long now and to be honest, NO WHITE MAN ever said anything vulgar to me or tried to rub their bodies on me like Sri Lankan men do in buses and streets! There's so much eve-teasing in SL. Over here in AUS ppl cant do that and wont do that...cos ppl r more free to do what they want over here...they r not restricted by a very conservative culture that makes em bottle up everything until they burst out in frustration in public! Sex is not such a BIG deal over here so ppl r more calm and open abt it. Its not taboo like it is in countries like SL and India...so no one tries to RUB the frustration here on others!


Wherever I go, I like to pick the GOOD things in any new culture and leave the BAD ones out, even if it's from my own culture. Im not afraid to say it either.


Keshi.

nik said...

@Keshi

***Again my point is...its not the PLACE, COUNTRY or CULTURE. So stop blaming em. Blame the PERSON

Here is where i think you have it wrong, it isn't any single factor, but a combination of all of these that determine the behavior.

Take my own example of Khan - "So same guy, same upbringing, same values behaves differently in different cultures/countries."

nik said...

@solitare,

i think you got me all wrong on that one (apologies if i came across as a snob). I wasn't labeling you a racist (far from it) or anything like that. The line of thought that i was pursuing was ... that you happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Just pointing out that it could have happened at any club (desi/spanish/mexican/french) and with any guy (not necessarily desi).

If you weren't witness to it at other places, that doesn't preclude such vile things from happening there either.

nik said...

** Its all about DEFENSE, OFFENSE, and the blame game.

Just to lighten things up a bit.... In my books, its all about DEFENSE, OFFENSE and the cheerleaders on the sidelines! :)

Keshi said...

Nik tnxx!

**Take my own example of Khan - "So same guy, same upbringing, same values behaves differently in different cultures/countries."


Khan is one of those guys that Sol met in the clubs...someone who changes according to the PLACE. And that doesnt make what he did RIGHT!


So Nik r u saying u'll change ur values depending on where u r? I think it's you who's got it wrong, not me.


Keshi.

Keshi said...

btw Nik..

**Take my own example of Khan - "So same guy, same upbringing, same values behaves differently in different cultures/countries."


again ur ASSUMING that the PLACE is what changes a person's behavior and that its ok to be like that! And yet again, ur blaming it on a CULTURE u hv never experienced?


I rest my case :)

Keshi.

Anu said...

Sol,
Some guys are just plain sleazy and I totally get your view on the woman being treated as mere sexual beings. But the way i console myself is that we woman set the higher standards, and if some guys just want to see us in a glorified barbie light, thats because they are trying to make up their own inadequacies

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

@ Solt..

I said :"The men would have to learn to act less animal like ,and learn to respect the fairer sex..., they would need to understand theirs a lot beyond flesh.."

You commented :"Do you do that? I think your response to Keshi was quite offensive."

Yes i do that..I like many of us have had our attitude and principles fortified by our family, and i must add again (to your discomfort) that the mother plays an important role in that.

Yes i agree... i went overboard with my comments to Keshi...but the comment would have been the same irrespective of Keshi's gender, in nay case i have apologized .

Sol.its not that just because of your writing about the incident that we men and women came to know about the animal behavior displayed by few men...we all have witnessed it...i was one of them...who tried to save a woman in a club twice ..and i was thrown out of the club too...and no..i wasnt trying to act macho..a crime was happening ..and many of us cannot witness it silently..

Achha ab choro nah...next time i think you should use yr kick boxing technique...see if u cd put a video of u practicing the art...we cd learn few of the steps from you that way..the gals of my city have begun to grope too...:))

" Bura Jo Dekhan Main Chala,
Bura Naa Milya Koye
Jo Mann Khoja Apnaa,
To Mujhse Bura Naa Koye" ..Kabir

nik said...

@keshi,

Before we take over this blog post and turn it into a mud-slinging contest :), I'd like to clarify a couple of things.

- I completely condemn the behavior of people like Khan and i did not ever state that it was right. However just because something is right or wrong, doesn't preclude it from happening and we need to be cognizant of it.

- I wouldn't change my values according to the culture but I would indeed change and adapt my mannerisms to the place i am in (in accordance with my 'When in Rome, do as Romans do' theory). If the change in mannerism was against my value system, then obviously values wins every time.


I think we are both thinking on similar lines, but I'm doing a terrible job of putting my view across correctly. I think we can both agree on this "The problem with people like Khan is there inability to judge what constitutes a change in behavior vs change in values when moving from one culture/place to another." which leads them to behave inappropriately. Agree?


p.s.- I actually do live in the US .. not long enough to have the culture ingrained in me, but certainly long enough to have seen and experienced the differences in culture.

Keshi said...

tnxx Nik!

**I think we can both agree on this "The problem with people like Khan is there inability to judge what constitutes a change in behavior vs change in values when moving from one culture/place to another." which leads them to behave inappropriately. Agree?


Agreed!


All I wanted to say was that no Culture or Place or Dress should be BLAMED for it. It's the INDIVIDUAL.


Ur in the US? nice. :)


Keshi.

tulipspeaks said...

Are women just sexualized objects meant to be great to look at, good to smell, and sensual to hold?

Looks like it

Are men not looking for like-mindedness, ambition, intelligence, and love?

Intelligence? Love? Ambition? These words are not in their dictionary.

Are we women mere showpieces always under the pressure to look great. How come we have to tolerate men farting in public, growing their nose hair, and flaunting their measly chicken legs during the summer while we have to always be well-groomed?

It's entirely different in the animal kingdom.. the males are expected to be 'well-groomed' and to flaunt their asset(s). Sometimes I do envy those animals!


ammu.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

I have been to all sorts of clubs here. Have lived here enough to do all that. And not once have I been subjected to such treatment as I ALWAYS do at a desi club.

Solitaire said...

@ Nik,

So nik..is it that there will never be a RIGHT time to go to a desi club and that a desi club is always the wrong place to go? Despite past experiences, I still go hoping that it was only something about that day and that crowd that made them behave that way. Sadly, I am mistaken every time.

Solitaire said...

@ Anu,

That is a nice way of looking at it!

Solitaire said...

@ Blue Kite,

Sorry does not make a dead man alive, does it?

Solitaire said...

@ Tulip,

Apparently, we have evolved in the wrong directions then!

Blue Kite Dreamz said...

@ Keshi...

Please tell Sol..that you wdnt die because of anyones offensive ..off taste...off track.. personal comments..

And that a genuine feeling of "sorry" has to repected..

tell her ..

"Kuch to log kahenge..blue kite ka kaam hai kahna, choro bekar ki batoo me, kai beet na jai rainaa"

:))

Keshi said...

Blue_Kite I hv to agree with Sol...'Sorry' doesnt take away the deed/offense/hurt.

But saying 'Sorry' too takes some courage. So yeah ur alright and ur forgiven :)


Keshi.

Deepali said...

Oh man some night you had...