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Tuesday, January 22, 2008

Single No More..

This blog is dedicated to all those beautiful people out there who are divorced or widowed.

Over the past few years, I have encountered more and more people who were married once, but not anymore. More divorcees than widows or widowers. Some single and happy, some single and lonely, and some isolated, not by choice. Some regret their decision and some feel lost and wonder what to do.

Over the past few years, I have encountered more and more young people who were never married but are considering marriage. And yet, will never consider marrying a divorcee or widower/widow. Why? Some reasons are attributed to the others such as, "My parents would never allow it" while some reasons are atrocious such as, "They have their own community". I understand that it is hard for Indian parents to digest such open-mindedness because they come from times when divorces were not prevalent. They have their own "community"? What does that mean?

Clearly, they are labeled. Labeled as flawed. Labeled as outcasts in the marriage market. Labeled as unacceptable. Fit to be in a community with other flawed people.

I say damn right they belong to another community. And I say damn right they should marry only other divorcees or widows/widowers. They belong to a community of people who have ridden emotional roller coasters, who have gone through hell, who have suffered a lot at a young age, and someone who has never married before will perhaps not understand what they have gone through.

Divorcees and widows/widowers are not in the phase of life they are in as a matter of choice. They did not enjoy it. And they clearly do not deserve this treatment.

72 Words of Wisdom:

~*. D E E P A .* ~ said...

hey !!

damn right ! and in many cases , it's no fault of the widow / widower / divorcee that they are single .... of course , people always say it takes 2 hands to clap , but even then ...

similar is the case of adoption in india ...

Mridula said...

Well said. I think we Indians are very good at stereotyping.

(¯`•._.•[Raaji]•._.•´¯) said...

very true. I appreciate your thoughts!
Cheers!

Mansi Trivedi said...

How does it matter if they are divorcees or widows? And why should we even call them "they". They are us. We have had bad relationships before - with friends, boyfriends, pets, strangers. We are all unofficially divorcees. Wake up. Atleast they have the courage to stand up for what is right for themselves.
I hope we grow out of this narrow-mindedness and learn to freakin be more human.

Well written Sneha.

Cinderella. said...

True girl..
As a single we begin to think, he who couldnt keep one marriage alive is going for the next !!!
Thats harsh.
Life is full of chances, as long as we are willing to take.
Why judge someone on levels so blatant and inhuman.
One should keep himself on the other person's place and try and figure, how hard it must have been for anyone who had to go through soemthing like that.

Great post as usual sweets

KP said...

well said....

single no more..

divorce and widows/widowers are human too.....

if criminal gets second chance...why cant they to live their life......;)

Vandita said...

and u are damn right!!!
i'll tell u the truth, my own sister was in love with a divorcee...though it was a whole different story that it didn't work out coz the guy was a jerk but i know what my mum thot abt it, here in india (my sis is in the US)...i know that she had sleepless nights abt it...and i also know that deep down she was kinda glad that it didn't work for my sis...and i hated that, i hated my mum for being judgemental and so damn concerned abt what other ppl think and not tryin to understand the situation...
if the guy wasnt such a dickhead and wud have actually put marriage on the table im sure my mum wud have gone berserk!
totally get what u mean!

Mansi Trivedi said...

@ KP
...the fact that you have compared divorcees to criminals itself shows this post failed to change your perspective. i hope something someday does.

you just conveniently missed the whole point.

Suneer said...

I think it is fast changing, the culture. And for the better. As compared to past, people are becoming more accepting of the same, it would take time, but I guess, it can only improve further.

(the most immediate examples I can think of - and pardon me for getting a little cricket here as well - Venkatesh Prasad, who's wife is...rather, was a widow, and Anil Kumble, who married a divorcee)

Cosmic Joy said...

I am going to play the devil's advocate here.

I do agree that it is wrong to discriminate against someone just because of their marital history.

I also agree that divorcees generally go through a rough patch. And they are face an uphill task trying to return to a normal life.

But a marriage is a very personal choice between the individuals involved (and their families in many instances). And if some people choose to marry within a certain community (religious or otherwise), then one should respect that.

And if some people do not want to deal with the various twists and turns of the roller-coaster ride that a divorcee has experienced, then so be it. Its their choice.

The bottom line is that the two individuals involved have to find that common middle ground where they feel comfortable with each other before taking the leap.

Solitaire said...

@ Deepa, I don't even think that even if it someone's fault, that they should be punished for life. We are all humans. And we all make mistakes. And expect to be forgiven. Then why should they be punished for life for a mistake that they made once with the whole world watching?

@ Mridula, yes. And it does not matter where we were raised and what kind of education we have. People say that United States is open-minded. I recently encountered a person educated and living here since a long time, and he has really negative attitudes about divorcees.

Solitaire said...

@ Raaji, Thank you! Do you agree?

@ Mansi, thank you Mansi for being so passionate about this. It is only when we find a loved one or a friend in this situation that we understand that divorcees and widows are also humans with the same feelings as us. And that they experienced more bad luck than we do.

Solitaire said...

@ Cinderella, I am glad you think that way. It is not easy for everyone to put themselves in someone else's shoes. We are normally quick to judge because we are not in that situation and believe that we will never be. The truth is, it can happen to any of us.

@ KP, I guess you will need to respond to Mansi's statement to you.

Solitaire said...

@ Vandita, WOW! True life experience. I am sure you can so totally relate to this. Its a pity that it did not work out. I am sure people were even quick enough to label this jerk boyfriend as not being capable of having a second marriage. The truth is..what might have been bad for your sister might have been good for someone else. Each to his own.

Solitaire said...

@ Suneer, It is changing for sure. "Fast"..I don't really know. Encountered a 26 year old Indian male living in the United States today who is totally against the idea of marrying a divorcee and has given them all sorts of labels. I only hope that God grants divorcees and widows the serenity to accept this dreadful world that they find themselves in.

Solitaire said...

@ Cosmic, Marrying into one's own caste, subcaste, religion, etc is completely a different ball park. Not wanted to be with someone who may potentially have "emotional baggage" is also a matter of choice. But passing judgmental statements, not allowing them a chance, and assuming that they have their own little community of divorcees/widows is a very harsh punishment.

Kevin said...

@Mansi Trivedi.... I think u fail to understand my point. Or may be I wasn’t clear enough. I’ll blame it on my self. Let me elaborate..I didn’t say divorces and widowers are criminals. What I meant is how do criminals becomes criminal they made some mistake and how does people ended up divorcing. They made mistake...I have heard people telling me they made mistake by end up marring him or her. We give criminals second chance and so why not divorces. They share common word “Mistake” or an “error”. So they get another chance in society, so why not divorces? Let me ask you this assuming u are not married… will you marry a divorcee? You can say, “Yes”…. Its easier said than done! (bolna bahut easy hein…lekin karna bahut mushkil hein) Lets do survey to see how many would marry divorced person…. not many…which means we still don’t treat them as normal person. Trust me, I have someone EXTREMELY close to me recently had to go thru divorce, so I know the situation that person has been through….

“Criminals itself shows this post failed to change your perspective. I hope something someday does.”

Well I hope I don’t have to go thru divorce to change my perspective…if that’s what u meant! I know my perspective is not what u thinks it is! And I don’t think my own family member is criminal…. just cause that person is divorced. I already know through that person, what it takes to fight society and your own family members…


Hopefully I have made it clear.

Darshini said...

I'm sorry to say that unfortunately, it is primarily the Indian folks who are judgmental of divorced individuals. It is quite a shame I must say. I don't believe that anyone should be discriminated against for anything whatsoever. May it be race, religion, prior relationship status or whatever. Believing in the idea that 'divorced individuals should have their own community and should only marry other divorced or widowed individuals' only negatively reinforces the judgmental attitudes of others. I do believe that everyone has the right to love and marry whomsoever they choose. And, the potential spouse must have the 'balls' to accept their partner and not be influenced by his/her family beliefs. If they can't do this, they don't deserve you.

J E E V Y said...

Damn Right!
I completely agree with u, One who has married before and divorced must never marry someone who doesn't even know what it is after marriage!

-Jeevy

Mansi Trivedi said...

Kevin...sorry to misunderstand without knowing your intention...
and i know what you mean when you say its easier said than done. but we have to start somewhere. even if it means by saying it out loud right.
and i agree with you mostly..

Ashu said...

Damn, you hit bull s eye in every post of yours and your views match a great deal to mine....

Divorces are helluva common this days and the perceptions of society towards them has changed a great deal as compared o 3 0r 4 yrs back...........

there is one single reason behind the growing divorces ; lack of patience and lack of will power to make the relationship work....And yes i agree with mansi, they should be given a 2nd chance, for most times, the divorce is an initiation of a single end and to get rid of the complexity and painful process involved in fighting out the case in court, the other party for the "dimag ki shanti" opts for mutual consent or out of court settlement,

having done that the other party also gets a tag of divorcee though no mistake of her / his, but has to suffer for the lack of understanding of other person!!!!!

could we talk ?

KP said...

@Mansi Trivedi....No worries...the prolem was i used lame logic to explain my point. I think it was healthy discussion/debate....

As I was one told
"when the debate is about who is right rather than what is right...never debate..."

We were certainly debating on what is right and not whos right...

@ Solitaire ....thank you for letting us used ur blog as debate platform.......

Thanks
kevin(kp)

Solitaire said...

@ Mansi and Kevin, no problem guys. It was a good discussion. I guess you both are looking at the same thing, only from a different angle. I am glad you guys did not take anything personally and make this a war platform.

@ Darshini, this is so well put. And I am so proud that you are able to talk about the negative aspects of Indians' attitudes despite being an Indian yourself, rather than going into a defensive mode. Unfortunately, as you rightly said, people are quick to judge, and will leave no chance to do that.

Solitaire said...

@ Jeevy, unfortunately, the Indian society has conspired in such a way that divorcees are forced to marry divorcees because they are too inferior to marry people who have never been married. When I would say that it is the other way around.

Solitaire said...

@ Ashu, Seriously having known many divorced women close to my heart, I do not really think that their "single reason" was lack of patience or willingness. It was sheer exhaustion after a long period of trying and trauma. They would have been unhappy alone, but even unhappier in that marriage.

Sometimes, we get to hear only one side of the story so we never know who is at fault. We may also assume that someone is at fault when it could be that no one really is and that the situation could be blamed. But nevertheless, I agree with you. The tag is applied, no matter what. And that brings with it a whole new herd of problems.

Solitaire said...

Yes Ashu, we can.
How, when, and where?

Sam said...

now that's a really nice take on this issue.. frankly, i'm yet to understand why getting divorced is such bad thing... now, if the fella is the guilty party then obviously no sympathies, but the other lot deserves a good listen.. and some respect.. they were the one to whom wrong was done..
and yeah, for me marrying a divorcee would be very tough at this stage of life.. 10 yrs down the line, if still single, i might scarred enough to deal with their emotional baggage!!
but till then, i'm ur friend but not ur partner!!

Solitaire said...

@ Sam, I would say that the person who decides to walk away (guilty or not) and come out of an unhealthy marriage is very courageous (unless in the case of an abusive relationship, I have no sympathies for the abuser). So yes, why is being courageous shunned down on, I failed to understand too. The logic that I hear is that "once families are involved, it is one's duty to save the marriage".

Anyway, I think that it might not be such a good thing to assume that every divorcee has "emotional baggage". Maybe they don't. Maybe they are over it. And maybe the
single girl that you marry might have emotional baggage from her relationship with an ex.

If you can be a divorcee's friend, then why not a partner?

d SINNER!!! said...

i can bet that divorcee's are much more sensitive abt various things then we people. They are beautiful people.

they lrn from thr mistakes and past, so they are the wittiest!

Anjuli said...

and are we any less then a divorcee/widow/widower?

I mean we have so may failed relationships...just because the thappa of marriage was not there, we get a clean chit...ridiculous!

I am as much a divorcee/widow as the so called divorcees/widows are...

infact yesterday I had a discussion with my mom when I asked her what if I get married to a guy who had been married once, and believe it or not, she was quite cool about it...

Pri said...

i couldent agree more...
i have written a post on this issue and plan to post it up soon...
its good u got it out in the open...itll encourage more ppl to express their views on it...

take care!

vEENs said...

May be life is not a Ekta Kapoor movie :)
Your point is right.

When we think of relationships, we have insecurities. but labeling them...it is like a sin.

good one dear.. keep 'em rolling!

vEENs said...

And yes then there are socieities who consider them as ap shagun's

they are not invited to auspicious fn like marriage and all..
that sucks big time

Solitaire said...

@ D sinner, you bet! I think that once someone goes through the experience themselves, their perspective changes. This is quite evident from some of the statements I have heard from youg non-married individuals who are against divorcees. I hope one day they realize how unreasonable they are being but I also hope they do not have to go through the same pain as divorcees or widows.

As for learning from our mistakes, we all do that, don't we. Divorcee or not.

Solitaire said...

@ anjuli, You are so right. This is exactly what Mansi also said in her comments. Kudos to your mom for being so cool about it. Do you think she will follow through with what she said if faced with that situation in reality?

@ Pri, let me know when you post it. Even though people are aware of this issue, no one is talking about it.

Solitaire said...

@ Veens, likewise they ban women who are infertile from going to baby showers. Ridiculous!

c e e d y said...

hey - i was busy - wanted to comment on that survey....and what i see is you have a post with the same issue :)

you are absolutly right - its better for people who are divorced to get back together sometimes as emotionally they are stronger.....but sometimes that "guilt and regret for ones actions" overrides.....and makes one reluctant to even approach anyone.....

Sam said...

A divorced woman attains a amturity which is hard to match up for many of us at teh same age. The reason being the divorce need nto always be a mutual one, and there can be happenings which make the concerned parties grow much older than they probably are... now i can tell you that, coz i've handled one such lady... and extremely talented one!! but then i knw for one thing, i'm not that high on EQ or reltionship factor to deal with her right now... i need to mature a little more!! that's how i look at it...
to be a frnd u don't really need maturity... but to forge a meaningful relationship u need it.. always!!

Pavi!!!! said...

I agree..completely. And as a matter of fact after having discussed the topic with a bunch of friends and after reading the comments on the blog ... I get the feeling a majority of us are on the same page...n agree with u.. Then..why is there a problem?
Not only this blog, a whole lot of other topics u have addressed in ur blogs seem to have a unanimous response - we all feel the same way. n I guess all of us are in agreement that ur blogs have a large no. of readers,and I'm sure not all these readers are essentially your frends, many ppl may be reading n posting comments and bcom ur accquaintances thru' ur blog (like me!!). So we are looking at a good sample..rite?

In which case i begin to wonder - WHO/WHERE IS THE PROBLEM?

I intend no offense, but are all of us sure, we are not being hypocrites?
U asked Anjuli a Q about her mom following thru' wat she said in reality...I ask every1 the same Q..will they follow thru' with wat they are sayin in readlity?

For instance... I have nothing against gay people..infact one of our best and very close friends is gay. She has a daughter and is married to a lady who she loves..n they are a delight to be with...But if we had a child ,and had to come to terms with the fact that (s)he is gay..personally it wld be very very traumatising for me.

I please ask for every1 to think thru' this practically n respond..instead of saying the 'RIGHT' things.

c e e d y said...

Finally found some time - and read thru the post again and all the comments till now
The very important question that this raises is - what is a marriage - is it something that an individual does for him/her or for the parents and relatives or just plain due to societal pressure.....

only in the first case can one make a clear choice with whom they want to spend their lives...

the who taboo that divorcees and widows/widowers are not "pure"...a thought that is carried among our indian older generation - also reflects our societies reluctance for people dating and meeting each other. With that in mind the elders simply assume that you are not going to find someone who isnt married.

Now if you go cross culture - and say marry someone who is not an Indian - then this in many cases this is a no brainer - its aceepted and done.

Another question that I would like to raise is - how much and what should a divorcee divulge - say everything that went wrong - accept his or her mistakes - deny and blame everything on the other partner....when seeking a new relation.....

someone above commented that they would be precarious since the person cld not handle the first relation - how will he handle this new one....

sorry for the long reply - (interested cause it reflects my current situation) - and I am working on credit anyways wid you....just please let me know the bill from time to time or else I will get bankrupt paying you.....
thanks for this wonderful platform

Solitaire said...

@ Ceedy, I think that the guilt, regret, low self-esteem, nervousness, whatever it may be, may become internalized at one point but I believe that if the society would have been more supportive, all those would have been minimized to begin with.

@ Sam, by the time you mature a little bit more, she will also have matured more than what she is. If you are behind on "EQ", I guess you will always stay behind. I wish that people would realize this upfront rather than dumping the person later and breaking hearts.

Solitaire said...

@ Pavi, thank you for taking the time out to write such a long and insightful comment and posing thought-provoking questions.

You are very right. Everyone seems to be on the same page. But I do not think that this is a true sample of the Indian society. Maybe the ones who do not agree with this post (and I personally know a few people like that) will choose not to comment for fear that they will be bombarded and ostracized. Secondly, we are writing our free minds here without the pressure and drama of parents and extended family sobbing, weeping, cursing, and threatening suicide.

Yes, I do wonder how it would be for people themselves to marry someone already married earlier as opposed to only advocating for them or supporting friends who would like to take this step. And one can never tell until one is in that situation. So if someone here is a hypocrite, I don't quite think they have the chance to realize it.

The problem lies in us, in our peers, in our values, and in the duty that we feel towards our parents who will be heartbroken if we decide to marry these "outcasts".

Solitaire said...

@ Ceedy, First of all, I am sorry you are going through this situation yourself and I hope that you get through this phase of life without the trauma and stresses that a divorcee goes through.

I fail to understand the notion that someone married earlier is not "pure". I assume that people refer to virginity. But does anyone know what goes on behind closed doors in romantic relationships? Premarital sex is becoming more and more common in India now and people like to live in a state of denial.

Secondly, yes, people do marry for themselves. But ultimately, they have to live in the society. And if society does not approve of what they have done, they have to live with that all their lives. And hence, they are afraid. As Darshini has pointed out earlier, they do not have the "balls" to accept their partner for who they are and be proud of them.

Thirdly, when remarrying, these people will have to marry someone mature, as correctly pointed out by many here and as my blog says. They have to marry someone who understands them and what they have gone through, rather than dwelling in their past, asking them questions, and probing like an FBI agent. Does it really matter whose mistake it was? The bottomline is that the relationship was unhealthy. Otherwise no one really wishes to go through divorce.

As for whether they can handle another relationship or not, definitely not with the person who poses such a question.

BTW, I charge a 100 dollars for every blog that you post a comment on.

Darshini said...

Sneha, if I may comment on some of the comments of others here....

@ Sam I don't completely agree with what you said "A divorced woman attains a maturity which is hard to match up for many of us at the same age"...
This statement is not always true. Women in general tend to be more mature than men their own age. It has nothing to do with prior relationship status. The only thing a divorced woman may have over a single man is the experience of a being married before...and I'm not speaking about sex here.

@ Ceedy..I strongly believe in this day and age, if a marriage is anything BUT a loving commitment between two individuals who want to spend the rest of their lives together, it is a sham.

Also, as to the question about how much one should divulge to the other person regarding their previous relationship, it is totally up to the person. One may choose to not talk about it at all, and that should be considered perfectly fine, because whatever happened was before they met their current partner..(unless of course if they killed their previous spouse and dumped them in the Mississippi, or something along those illegal lines. Now thats a whole new issue).


As Sneha pointed out, the idea of associating sex, ONLY with marriage is overrated. It might still be 'hush hush' in today's Indian society, but premarital sex is becoming more and more common.


@ Sneha ...I agree with what you said "They have to marry someone who understands them and what they have gone through....". However, I do not believe that their new partner should necessarily be also divorced. And I hope that everyone here does not believe that as well. As I had said in previous comment, if you yourself believe that a divorcee should ONLY marry a divorcee, it only negatively reinforces the narrow-mindedness of some, which is the topic of this whole discussion.
Of course it is hard for the divorced individual, there is no question about that whatsoever. But I hope that they can eventually get over the previous situation, and come out strong, with the knowledge and experience, that will allow them to find love once again, without posing limitations on themselves.

Sneha, maybe your next blog should be ...'GAY- to be or not to be, that is the question'.
I bet that will stir up a whole new storm. I am anxious to hear everyone's comments on that topic.

Cheers everyone :)

Ashu said...

Darshini, appreciate your thoughts, but do you really know the pain a divorcee (man or woman doesnt matter) go through ? If yes, then share the perspectives, if not then better dont trash any body else.......

i have gone through a painful breakup as good as a divorce and trust me today 1 yr later i m not yet recovered out of it.........

my point is why do we need to look at this people wid different eye ?

c e e d y said...

@solitaire

Thanks for the wishes....I am fine absolutly...or else wld not have spoken out....

Well the topic of sex _ I was eluding to the old folks - relatives - many know what goes on - and still many try to accept it...

Well about the part of the society - it is a paradox one has to face....and that happens in every desicion of our lives not just marriage....but if you are strong within....then it really should not matter....but that again is a rare species...

Lastly let me ask you this....I agree with what you say....dont need to divulge....and thats exactly I posed this question...

but do you really think a person who has never married marries a divorcee - will not feel insecure sometimes....like Is he/she thinking about the other?
Dont you think they would like to make sure that this person is completely over the past trauma....to have a new healthy relationship....(yes one can be discreet and can handle it with care....)

Lastly I already owe you a lot....so till I pay I will not be able to visit your blog....(to comment that is) unless you accept insurance .....

c e e d y said...

@darshini

Glad you commented -

I agree about the sham!!!! but waht about commitments taht start as love become a chasm of disagreements but marriage still persists for various reasons....
is it worth living such a life!!!

About the comment on "sex" and "divulging information - please read the comment I left for Solitaire above....

Mel Avila Alarilla said...

Hi Solitaire,
Divorcees should never be treated with contempt or discrimination. They may have made a mistake in their lives but who does not. People who discriminate against divorcees are people who are out of the times. People change and people do commit mistakes. Who is perfect in this world who will never commit a mistake in his entire life? Nobody I think. So let us not become hypocrites as to cast our stones on other people for the next stone may be thrown at us. Thanks for the controversial post. God bless you and your family always.

Darshini said...

@ Ashu...
Please point out where I 'trashed' other divorcees??

I'll give you my own example, and Sneha can vouch for this I believe. I'm not just making this up.
I was in a relationship with someone a few years ago, and was even engaged to him for a year. During that time, he cheated on me once, and I forgave him. A couple years after that, he cheated again, and then I kicked his sorry ass out of my life.
And it took me three years to get over it.

I am now engaged so someone whom I'm completely happy with. But, he has never been a committed relationship before me.

So the point I was trying to make, which you obviously missed, is that divorcees or people in prior serious relationships should not feel that the only way they are going to have a relationship again, is if it is with someone who has been through exactly the same thing.

I'm sorry for what you are going through right now. Trust me, I've been there, and during that time, I was not sure if I was going to be able to be happy again. But, I found love again, and I am very happy now.
I have not forgotten what happened to me in the past, but I don't dwell on it.

Now, to answer your question about, do I know other divorcees. Yes, I know many. My own aunt for one. She got divorced within months of her marriage, and its been 30 years, and she is still divorced. Because of the Indian society, and its shallow beliefs, even though she found love again, it never got to the point of marriage.

I also have another example..my very close friend got divorced a few years ago. And now, she is happily married again, with someone who was never married before.

Darshini said...

@ Ceedy

The answer to your question is
'ABSOLUTELY NOT'.

I know someone very close to me who has been married to someone for 30+ years, and have two grown up children.

However, the marriage is a sham. They met in college, and fell in love. Years passed and their differences became obvious. The husband has even cheated on the wife several times. But, unfortunately, they are still together, primarily because of societal pressures, and also, as the wife says 'for the sake of the children'.

My heart goes out to her. I have tried many a times to convince her to file for divorce. She has been the U.S. for quite some time now, and her children are grown up and on their own. So none of the reasons she had before for not leaving her husband, exist anymore.
But, she still refuses to leave him, because she believes that they are still good friends. Their marriage is a complete sham. They sleep in separate rooms, but put up show for others when they are in public.

So, I believe that for a situation such as this, it is completely up to the person to make the decision to leave or stay. All we can do is be good friends/relatives, and support them no matter what, and pray that they can find some peace.

Darshini said...

@ Ceedy

To comment on the point about 'how much info to divulge'...

Well, it is possible for the other person to feel insecure about their spouse's prior relationship.
It is just as likely for someone to worry that their partner will cheat on them in the future (whether or not they were previously married).

I think, that is something that they, as a couple, have to work on. It is the responsibility of the woman/man to make her/his partner feel secure in their current relationship.

Mez said...

I see a long set of discussions on this post here. Let's learn to respect others sentiments first regardless of their status....things will themselves fall into place. Agree wid yah totally.

c e e d y said...

Thank you Sneha and Darshini for this insightful rhetoric....

At Ashu - giving a second read - it seems we are all on the same page - and just because the topic is sensitive - we read it in our own different ways and feel quesy.....

The only thing missing in this equation is someone who is totally opposed to this idea....then the real debate can occur...

The crux of the matter is there are ways and means and instances where everyone can co-exist - you just have to be patient to find that space...

Preethi said...

As you scroll down...... the comments get longer and are more OPEN and questions more pointed, answers even so. Evolution at its best.

Anywhere, when such obviously. debatable/ 'extremely personal for some', posts are written both the author of the post and people who are commenting should be courteous to others' points of view. Many times when such points are discussed the comments/replies are very rude unless you say 'i agree'. But in this particular post it changed to a good discussion forum. nice to see.

On the topic though..... unless the importance attached to 'marriage and commitment' lessens in the Indian society .... any kind of taboo feeling on the divorcees will remain.

Extremely unfair but that's how things get formulated in a society. It is all connected. For the simple reason that a married man or a woman in India strives their best to make their marriage work compared to their Western counterparts. Whether anybody accepts it or not that is the truth. At least for most part. So when someone is divorced in India it is an automatic assumption that something or somebody is extremely wrong. This is not the case in western countries since divorces happen at the drop of the hat and does not mean that something is extremely wrong just that they were 'not compatible'. So pls. do not compare 2 absolutely different cultures.

It is very inhumane to see people differently because of the situations that they were unfortunate to have faced.
I wish things were different.
I wish all you guys who have stood behind what this post stands for take it seriously and find a way to bring about a difference in your own circle first.
everything should have a beginning.
Begin at home. Help your nears and dears who are going through this or have gone through this.
Find them dating mates. help them to set up a profile in matrimony sites. Make a difference.

Solitaire said...

Hey everyone, I urge you to read this recent article in the Times of India and comment on it.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2729438.cms

c e e d y said...

Thank you for the artical....Wow!!!!!

So I am part of a statistic :( though not Bombay.....

But on a lighter note....
2out of 5 is 40% so another 10% - there will be equal candidates - married (seperated) and unmarried - so you think "shaddi.com" should also come up with "wapasshaddi.com" or smg like that...

just posing another question to everyone - do you think that this advent of computers and constant updates and change and pace of getting things done - has made us unstable - as we are looking for quick fixes in relationships rather than working at the core of the issues.....(cld be another blog doc!!!)

Solitaire said...

@ Darshini, I do not necessarily feel that a divorcee should only marry a divorcee because they would best understand the situation. However, it is necessary for a divorcee to marry someone who is open-minded and has the strength to face the obstacles that Indian society may place before the couple, and someone who will be sensitive to what the divorcee has gone through.

Solitaire said...

@ Ashu, I often feel that the trauma that a broken long-term relationship makes you go through may be equivalent to the trauma of a divorcee. However, for the sake of society, you still remain SINGLE. When you go to hospitals, the categories that they have is Single, Married, Divorced, Widowed. You still manage to check on "Single". You are still known as a single woman whose relationship did not work out with her boyfriend/fiance. You do not have the "thappa" (as Anjuli put it) of being a divorcee and living with that label. And if you decided to sign up for a matrimonial site, your profile will not be filtered out because to the world, you are SINGLE.

Solitaire said...

@ Ceedy, I really think that if a partner is insecure about someone's past marriage, they are really in denial about what is going on in today's world. How many of us here talk about ex-boyfriends and broken relationships all the time? I think less that 50% of today's youngsters have never been in a relationship before they get married. If we were to dwell on that, we would remain insecure all our lives.

BTW, just to let you know. There is a site called www.secondshaadi.com because people are becoming more and more aware of the increasing number of divorces in India. And that facts are clear in that article by the Times of India.

maverick said...

thts so very true....n with things changing so fast u see a lot of divorcees n all in india too...separated couples n all...the list is growing..yep...sometimes just the situation is just not perfect even when the two ppl r there who think they can make it perfect...thts life.. :D..nice post..updated my blog :)

Solitaire said...

@ Mez, no mez, things will not fall into place as it is. It is a different thing to respect divorcees and another thing to accept them as your life-partner. We have to actively work to bring about this change.

@ Preethi, you are very right about us having to make a change and bring about a difference. However, based on the article I posted in the comments section, for every 5 marriages registered in Mumbai, there are 2 applications for a divorce. This means that we are not that far behind compared to the American statistic of 50% divorce rate. I also think it is wrong for us to assume that Americans divorce at the drop of a hat. I have lived here several years, have several American friends, very few who went through a divorce, and when they did, they tried very hard to save their marriages before they took this final step.

Darshini said...

Sneha,
I agree with you completely. As I had mentioned in my first comment, the potential spouse must have the 'balls' to accept their partner and not be influenced by his/her family beliefs, or societal pressures.
And of course, they must also be sensitive enough to understand what their partner went through in the past.


If I offended anyone with any of my comments, I truly apologize.
Breakups and divorces are very painful, and private. There is absolutely no time limit for grieving over a failed relationship. All I can say from my personal experience is that there is hope for all of us.

Pavi!!!! said...

@ sneha - wooow! that article has left me in total shock... 2 of 5 marriages applying for divorce IN INDIA ?? It's so unbeliveable. Frankly I'm hoping therez something rong with the research and ther'll be an apology regarding wrong info in that article soon! Pls let us know if that does happen!!!

Also i believe problems in any kind of relationship is caused by 2persons. One person alone cannot be blamed. Tho , the trigger/ starting point for all trouble may be one person.

Pavi!!!! said...

@ preeti - u have said
"unless the importance attached to 'marriage and commitment' lessens in the Indian society .... any kind of taboo feeling on the divorcees will remain. "

I take a lot of pride in the amount of importance India attaches to the institution of marriage.Infact Americans are trying to learn/ ape us with regard to how much importance we give to relationships(parents-children , husband-wife etc) , while we are trying to ape them in the process of trying to be "cool" $ "forward" .
Marriage is a sacred institution. n Ideally should be a one-time event in each person's life. That is the way of life & thats wat a person should belive when he decides to marry.
But of course if situations don't permit that, I'm not advocating that a person remain in a broken marriage.

The ideal / perfect scenario..is trying to strike the balance. Giving the marriage a fair shot, trying to work out the differences and if all done & it yet doesn't work out..then Divorce is a solution.

Pavi!!!! said...

@ ceedy - In response to ur Q ..
" do you think that this advent of computers and constant updates and change and pace of getting things done - has made us unstable - as we are looking for quick fixes in relationships rather than working at the core of the issues..... "

Yes, in the name of being "forward" , "open-minded", "independent".... tolerance,faith,trust is lost and quick decisions are made.We want everything to be perfect & "my-way" and are not willing to make any compromises.

I don't want any1 to misunderstand me here..i'm not saying people should stay in a marriage however bad it is..I'm just saying one should give it a fair shot.

Solitaire said...

@ Pavi, I sure will! And if nothing of that sort happens, assuming that this is true, we will have to accept it. Denial is not going to work too long.

Preethi said...

@ solitaire: Although the statistics are shocking, i've to point to you that Mumbai and Thane does not represent the whole of India. You cannot by any measure compare it to the 50% of the American statistics. This point should not be ignored because it gives a skewed vision of India when that is not the case. It is nice to know that ur American friends are committed. But i've lived on and off in the US for a very very long time now. I've seen a bit but 'divorce at the drop of the hat' was a far fetched statement. To that i agree !

Preethi said...

@ pavi: Pls. read the context of my statement and read my comment completely and try to contest me there. I say this with utmost humility. Because you've replied understanding it in the exact opposite way!

What i meant by that is since such an importance is given to marriage and committment in India simply wishing away all the feelings against divorcees is unrealistic. It comes with the package. Free society comes at a cost. Hope i clarified my point.

Solitaire said...

@ Preethi, I think the point that this article makes is that India is not that far behind in terms of where United States now is. If the statistics is like this in Mumbai (where things usually start such as imported goods, fashion, etc), soon it will be accepted all over the nation. At least in the next 20 years, things will change. I hope that the attitudes towards divorcees also change.

Pavi!!!! said...

@Preeti - Sorry , if i offended u.By no means am i trying to contest u here.

Like I and a whole bunch of others have commented, we are all saying the same thing but in different words.

In my opinion .."lessening the importance on marriage and commitment " should not be a way of making Divorce a less-taboo topic. I u'stand & agree free society comes at a cost and that wishing away divorces is unrealisitc.
What this blog lays stress on is change in attitude towards divorcees...rgdg which I'm completely onboard.

PS : I'm not sure if I have managed to convey what I'm thinking, but no offenses meant.

Ashu said...

Darshi, apologies if i offended you....a breakup for a relationship of 4 yrs is worse even than a divorce, trust me....it really is........

visit my blog and u d see the pain :)

Sneha, i dont care about the status as single, the most important thing is emotional health, it doesnt matter how the hospitals or bureaus or others see me as (single or broke or whateva), the pain of going through the breakup is worst......more worst than the divorce........

Ask mez and me, we are witness to that.........

Any kind of separation is painful, doesnt matter if its legally separation in divorce or a breakup in a long relationship when u have stayed almost as good as a ....

backpakker said...

Sad but true..i think in a marriage, wave lengths matter more than anything else.., but in the indian context, you always marry the guy or the gals family and than the actual person and thats where I believe the issue starts